The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)

[Smerphy]

I largely agree with Slev, though Red Death makes a reasonable point (very impolitely).

Whatever changes new Labour made, they did not stop inequality increasing so they must have been pretty cosmetic. And they did begin workfare.

Any candidate other than Corbyn will just give us another Tory lite party which would be useless. What we need is a moderate socialist party without all the multicult/feminazi nonsense.

Like what?

[Gandalf the Red]

After living in a city that was ruined by the far left loony Militants then I hope they do pick Corbyn. Then we might get a split in the party and finally get rid of the flat earth society that still think it's 1917 and that they are fighting a class war. If not then we won't see a Labour government again.

If Miliband couldn't get into power with a leftist Labour manifesto then going even further to the left isn't going to work.

[Slev]

A lot wouldn't vote for Milliband as he was too right-wing, hence the green surge.

Yes, the Blair government did do some good things. A stopped clock is right twice a day after all.

I'm also not saying I agree with Corbyn on everything. Several points I disagree with him on, but I can respect his oppinions.

The point is that we need an effective, logical party that will care for the people who own the country and employ them (the citizens), rather than just look out for the rich.

[houston4044]

A lot wouldn't vote for Milliband as he was too right-wing, hence the green surge.

Yes, the Blair government did do some good things. A stopped clock is right twice a day after all.

I'm also not saying I agree with Corbyn on everything. Several points I disagree with him on, but I can respect his oppinions.

The point is that we need an effective, logical party that will care for the people who own the country and employ them (the citizens), rather than just look out for the rich.

So that's mainstream political parties out and any party that wants to avoid immediate economic strife out.

For the most part I'd say the dominant global political discourse has shifted right, if Corbynn won and did become PM I doubt he'd be able to enact half his policies anyway, the EU, relationship with America, China and Russia will be hurdles that I don't think he'd be able to overcome effectively. Apart from a handful of parties from countries who are in dire straits (Greece and Spain for example) there seems to be a right wing hold on power at the moment (I know Obama's a democrat but he's pretty Conservative for the most part).

[red_death]

There was nothing right wing about Ed Miliband (and anyone who had any idea of his family history would understand why - hint check out who his father was). The difference between Blair and Miliband (to an extent) is that they realised that actually winning the election was more important than sticking firmly to left wing set of principles that (unfortunately) not enough of the country agreed with.

Slev - I agree with you about agreeing with some of Corbyn's policies and his huge advantage (compared to the lacklustre or just plain lacking campaigns of the other 3 candidates) is that he is so clear in his principled messages. Almost everyone who is interested in politics at any level has to decide where they are prepared to compromise on their beliefs - to think otherwise is naive. For *me* Corbyn crosses too many lines that I think are vitally important eg his old Left distrust of the EU (despite the EU being responsible for many environmental and work safety advances over the last 30 years). Unfortunately none of the other candidates have exactly filled me with confidence.

[Slev]

There are ways and means to put consumer protections and taxation models into place that would not cause such strife and which play to the EU rules, etc.

It's even possible to logically couch this all in conservative terms to prevent the right-wing from dismissing the facts and evidence underlying the centre-left possition.

[houston4044]

There are ways and means to put consumer protections and taxation models into place that would not cause such strife and which play to the EU rules, etc.

It's even possible to logically couch this all in conservative terms to prevent the right-wing from dismissing the facts and evidence underlying the centre-left possition.

Logically? Yes, politically? No.

To be able to make a policy that is essentially left wing that also appeals to the right wing in a currently leaderless divided party would take a level of charisma or backroom politicking that none of the current candidates possess. With lines in the sand being drawn it'll be hard for those in the center and those on the other side who would be willing to support one policy (but not everything) without being labelled left/right wing or a traitor. Blair managed it by pulling everyone together and smudging a compromise, I can't see a Corbyn or a Burnham being able to do the same.

[Metalchemyst]

Any candidate other than Corbyn will just give us another Tory lite party which would be useless. What we need is a moderate socialist party without all the multicult/feminazi nonsense.

Like what?

Pretty much anything that comes under the umbrella of political corrrectness. But more importantly, we need a Labour party which is willing to improve democracy. If Corbyn would change the system to PR (for a start) then I'd have a lot of respect for him.

[Gandalf the Red]

Just watched a bit of the leadership debate on SKY. What a useless bunch.

[houston4044]

I think we need to have a referendum on putting "none of the above" on election ballot papers, the leadership election (+ Lib Dems and Tories being well... Lib Dem and Tories) just shows there is no party of real caliber out there at the moment.

[houston4044]

So who do people think will win the Labour leadership election then?

[WorMzy]

Some politician.

[Gandalf the Red]

[Andy (Dr Sin)]

Lol Corbyn. What a Joker.

But seriously, I wouldn't be surprised to see Labour almost wiped out in the North of England now, and replaced by Ukip.

[Jobdone]

I'm interested to see what the actual public reaction is.

Right now all I've got to go off is my left-wing facebook echo chamber, and the Murdoch "COUNTRY IS FUCKED FOREVER" articles.