Thread 101

[keera_envenomed]

^^^ The illogical thing there is that Scotland, Wales and NI have separate national teams when we are all in fact a single nation. If they want their own identities they should vote for complete independence.

You're confusing nation and sovereignty there. The UK is a sovereign country with 4 (or more) separate nationalities included. The illogical thing would be forcing one national anthem on people who are culturally, historically and linguistically distinct from each other.

Im not saying i'm in favour of a single anthem for all 4 nations but I wouldn't say Wales, Scotland and England that distinct from each other. From like 1147 until 1940's England and Wales have basically been one unit so share big historical etc ties; Scotland and England have shared the same monarch and been in union over 300 years, even the independence movement shied away from total separation.

Not saying we are one and the same but I think people overstate how disunited we are (except NI, that's a complicated story)

If by "big historical ties" you mean England invaded them and repressed their culture and people for hundreds of years then maybe! The Welsh certainly haven't forgotten that.

[houston4044]

To be fair that's how most countries are formed, either through force or coercion, it's not England are alone in doing it.

[keera_envenomed]

To be fair that's how most countries are formed, either through force or coercion, it's not England are alone in doing it.

Absolutely not but it almost never results in a uniform culture.

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

To be fair that's how most countries are formed, either through force or coercion, it's not England are alone in doing it.

"It's alright if themmuns do it as well."

Are you sure you're not secretly from North Belfast?

[Jim]

To be fair that's how most countries are formed, either through force or coercion, it's not England are alone in doing it.

And it's exactly that action that actually causes the devolved nations to become more distinct. There is a HUGE gulf in cultures between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. HUGE. You only have to spend a few days in each to see it. I spent 22 years in Scotland and now 8 in England and it always amuses me how different Scots are in general when I'm back up there visiting.

[houston4044]

To be fair that's how most countries are formed, either through force or coercion, it's not England are alone in doing it.

"It's alright if themmuns do it as well."

Are you sure you're not secretly from North Belfast?

I meant that statement can't be applied to only England alone

To be fair that's how most countries are formed, either through force or coercion, it's not England are alone in doing it.

Absolutely not but it almost never results in a uniform culture.

Oh of course, my comments were more about common rather than uniform culture.

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

And now comes the million dollar question- what are some of the facets of this "common British culture"?

[Gandalf the Red]

Drinking and fighting innit?

[houston4044]

Complaining, dislike of the English, lack of wealth and investment outside of London

But really:

Language (native languages aside from English are far from wide spread), Education, Business/economy, army, sport (may have separate national teams but rugby and football are popular among each nation).

Basically the same things that hold other nations together except they're British (bad wording I know); It's the same for what holds countries like America and Germany together.

[houston4044]

Drinking and fighting innit?

I'll fight you fer yer shoes!

[Jim]

Drinking and fighting innit?

I'll fight you fer yer shoes!

Bonnieprincecharlietakingthefuckinshoesaffthepeople!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uOE-94K8fQ

[keera_envenomed]

Complaining, dislike of the English, lack of wealth and investment outside of London

But really:

Language (native languages aside from English are far from wide spread), Education, Business/economy, army, sport (may have separate national teams but rugby and football are popular among each nation).

Basically the same things that hold other nations together except they're British (bad wording I know); It's the same for what holds countries like America and Germany together.

That's only really culture in the broadest sense of the word.

[Gandalf the Red]

sport (may have separate national teams but rugby and football are popular among each nation).

But they play the wrong sort of Rugby.


I won't mention cricket.

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

Language (native languages aside from English are far from wide spread), Education, Business/economy, army, sport (may have separate national teams but rugby and football are popular among each nation.)

Right.*cracks knuckles*

Language: you speak standard English, I speak Ulster English. Yes its a dialect, but there's almost as much difference between them as Castellano and Catala. Also Irish and Ulster Scots speakers together are about 15% of the population, higher than any native languages in South America. How we write literature in English also differs massively too- most northern Irish works of poetry and drama have always fallen into wider Irish schools and movements rather than British ones.

Education: education is a devolved matter in the UK, which is why we've chosen to keep religious institutions, grammar schools/streaming and capped uni fees. We have also have a historical lack of public (as in private) schools here, and peculiarities in achievement levels i.e. underachievement in the protestant working class and higher aspirations in the upwardly mobile catholic middle class.

Business/economy: I'm not sure what this has to do with culture but anyway, NI joined the industrial revolution much later, still has more people employed in the public sector than England, Scotland or Wales and our buses and railways are still state-owned.

Army: little known fact, quite a lot of people here aren't particularly big fans of the armed forces. In WWII the vast majority of recruits from Ireland (of both political shades) joined in with the aim of political points-scoring, and post-war very few recruits have come from here. Bar the Ulster Defense Regiment in the 70's, most of whom were also members of loyalist terror groups.

Sports: people here still follow English and Scottish soccer, but our local league has fallen so low all 5 soccer stadiums in Belfast are in such disrepair that they can only safely fill less than half their capacities. Rugby is still big of course but Ravenhill is only the 5th largest stadium, behind 4 (Gaelic) football/hurling stadiums including Casement Park which is nearly twice the size.

[houston4044]

Not saying we are one and the same but I think people overstate how disunited we are (except NI, that's a complicated story)

Thank you for writing longhand why I kept NI out of my argument

I'm not saying the UK ties each nation at the hip, but I'd say we have more common ties than other countries (even if those ties are resented). It's a more harmonious union than other countries have.

Regardless of everything I've said I'm actually a supporter of federalism (or an English referendum to leave just to watch the Welsh panic ).