Double post and it won't let me delete.....
My own fault for trying to be funny.
The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
- Gandalf the Red
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
Last edited by Gandalf the Red on Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“He likes having the ball, playing football, passes. It’s like an orchestra. But it’s a silent song. But I like heavy metal more. I always want it loud.” - Jürgen Klopp
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
Tolkien said England had been going downhill since the Norman Conquest.Gandalf the Red wrote:All I can say Is the country went downhill when they let women vote...
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
But would that have happened under the Cons as well?
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
Metalchemyst wrote:
But would that have happened under the Cons as well?
More than likely, a strong economy and high living standards is going to attract people from countries that have lower living standards, regardless of who was in government it would of attracted people. The only difference the Tories could have made would of is limit non-EU migrants, at which point your essentially swapping one group of people for another (maybe a small change in the overall number of people but not a sea change moment).
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
Extremely doubtful.
Labour could have put a limit on EU migration when they had the choice, but didn't, apart from Romanians and Bulgarians which were delayed. They actively encouraged migration. We could have even totally opted out as we did the Euro.
Immigration isn't a bad thing in general. It's just the fact that for every skilled worker such as a doctor, nurse, builder, electrician, etc. you get countless unskilled workers who just turn up and do the jobs that the natives should be doing. I remember in the 1980s and 1990s when loads of people from my neck of the woods would go down South to do fruit, veg and hop picking and also work in the holiday camps and hotels. So all that rubbish that is spouted on TV that the fruit won't get picked is bollocks.
That's not to mention the lack of infrastructure such as schools and housing, especially in the smaller towns that many of these migrants have moved to.
The whole thing was badly thought out as usual.
Labour could have put a limit on EU migration when they had the choice, but didn't, apart from Romanians and Bulgarians which were delayed. They actively encouraged migration. We could have even totally opted out as we did the Euro.
Immigration isn't a bad thing in general. It's just the fact that for every skilled worker such as a doctor, nurse, builder, electrician, etc. you get countless unskilled workers who just turn up and do the jobs that the natives should be doing. I remember in the 1980s and 1990s when loads of people from my neck of the woods would go down South to do fruit, veg and hop picking and also work in the holiday camps and hotels. So all that rubbish that is spouted on TV that the fruit won't get picked is bollocks.
That's not to mention the lack of infrastructure such as schools and housing, especially in the smaller towns that many of these migrants have moved to.
The whole thing was badly thought out as usual.
“He likes having the ball, playing football, passes. It’s like an orchestra. But it’s a silent song. But I like heavy metal more. I always want it loud.” - Jürgen Klopp
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
Given how pro business the Tories are, they would have come around to opening the boarders given a lot of business' are pro migration. Hell, it was probably better that we had a Labour government at the time, the Tories wouldn't have invested in the infrastructure the same way Labour did and it would of compounded the current situation were in now (economically we'd still be in roughly the same position anyway as the '07 would've happened regardless).
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
As a thought experiment, suppose net migration had been kept close to zero since 1993. What difference would that have made?
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
Metalchemyst wrote:As a thought experiment, suppose net migration had been kept close to zero since 1993. What difference would that have made?
To me? Nothing, migration didn't factor into my vote (the way the EU is run and the gaping issues it has as an institution were my biggest qualms). But I imagine it would have dented the leave vote quite a bit. Personally I think the sluggish growth of living standards post crash was the biggest factor in the rise of anti-EU sentiment, I imagine if standards had picked up quicker a lot earlier people wouldn't care so much if they felt they were benefiting from it.
Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
TBF, most people voting leave either did it in spite of migration, or because they blame migration for unrelated phenomena.
Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
Slev wrote:TBF, most people voting leave either did it in spite of migration, or because they blame migration for unrelated phenomena.
So the media would have you believe. Even allowing for selection bias, that doesn't seem to reflect the reality that I see, though. Among the people I know that voted to leave (myself included), migration was pretty low down on the list of reasons.
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
EDIT:
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
But they reckon the AfD will have little influence because none of the other parties will directly cooperate with them. I suppose they act as a strong pressure group though.
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
I see they are all in a position to take back Breslau.
“He likes having the ball, playing football, passes. It’s like an orchestra. But it’s a silent song. But I like heavy metal more. I always want it loud.” - Jürgen Klopp
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
Fun game- have a look at who on your Facebook newsfeed is showing outrage about the Catalan referendum crackdown and seen how many of them were opposed to Brexit and demanded the result be overturned/ignored.
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Re: The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)
It's quite funny watching the arguments between both sides of the Scottish independence issue as they argue over who gets to appropriate whats happening in Catalonia and how it justifies their point of view.