So much for Iced Earth...

For general discussion of all things metal-related.
User avatar
metaldinosaur
Leather Rebel
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:56 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby metaldinosaur » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:36 am

Skippy wrote:
metaldinosaur wrote:
People are afraid trump will become totalitarian. I don't think he will/can, and he has never actually broken the law. Though he woul probably brake the law if he could get away with it, he won't because, unlike the real facist despots, he will lose the vast majority of his supporters. Therfore, calling them facist is wrong and destructive to the ongoing discord, which needs de-escalating asap.

I think you are right in that we are using different definitions - I am more going by what Fascism became, rather than its orginal incarnation - Fascism as a dirty word, rather than when it was celebrated.

I think you are very wrong on this point though. The legality of a lot of Trump's actions is hotly debated, and whether or not he's protected from repercusions by the GOP owning the Senate and Congress and the Supreme Court. Hence the impeachment.

I think you are right though, he needs to explain before he's judged too harshly. Although for some fans it seems a bit late for that.



I guess we aren't going to fully agree, but I take your point - if I'm honest, I wouldn't want to be Trumps lawyer.

Btw, its people like you (and many others on this thread too) that make this forum really worth having: Insightful, well informed, actually addressed my points, and respectful throughout.

Imagine trying to have this debate on the bloodstock Facebook page like this!
Welcome to a brave new world/ The future here or haven't you heard?

bloodofthekings
Hell Bent for Leather
Posts: 2008
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:38 am
Location: Leeds
Contact:

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby bloodofthekings » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:29 am

Someone with a bit more knowledge on fascism and how it develops than any of us making an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/stat ... 1284874240

i0th2
Warrior of Metal
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 11:26 pm

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby i0th2 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:16 pm

Saw that speech on Twitter yesterday, thought it was brilliant.

As for whether Jon's a full on raging Nazi or just likes to hang out with them, or the intricacies of which economic ideal Trump and his band of nutters subscribe to is an interesting debate. However whichever way it lands for me Jon's moved into being someone I have no interest in supporting anymore.

User avatar
Czech's Mate
Denim Demon
Posts: 4128
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Northampton....not Wellingborough!

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Czech's Mate » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:28 pm

bloodfiend wrote:
Skippy wrote:
Am I the only one that saw Gandalf's comments not as a "keyboard warrior" but jokey and tongue-in-cheek?


Yes, I don't think that grumpy old fuck has ever been "jokey".


Wow I don't come to the forum for a while and suddenly it's back to semblance of life with threats of legal action and arguments about fascism.

So for the record, I fucking hate fascists, and racists and won't give my money to them in any way.....hence my exceptionally large black metal collection having omissions of bands like Burzam.

Regarding Skippy's comment above, I think I have met Gandalf on three occasions, and he is certainly less grumpy / cantankerous in real life than the image people seem to get on here.....but then on two of those occasions he had had quite a few beers and appeared VERY mellow! (Derby Hell gig quite a few years back if I recall correctly.) I therefore think / hope that the court comments were as Skippy suggest tongue in cheek as in my view whilst he can be highly opinionated (and I don't agree with a lot of those opinions), I don't see him as fascistic. Right wing probably, fascist not.....but then that's just my opinion for what it's worth

As for John Schaffer, I think he is very very wrong to have done what he did....as AAAARRRRGGGHHHH correctly says he's been a very naughty boy. In my opinion he is at best a manipulated, deluded law breaker..... and at worst.....well that will come out at a later date in court.

For the moment and probably permanently, I will not be putting any more of my cash his way.

Is this the end of his career? I think that depends on what the American courts decide. My understanding (which could well be wrong) is that the protesters could face up to 10 years if convicted. Beyond that, Metal audiences have been (lost prophets understandably aside) fairly forgiving regarding the legal shenanigans of bands so he may still come back from this albeit with fewer sales from people who will decide not to buy or stream his stuff on a point of principle

The people I do feel sorry for are his bellow band members in Iced Earth who have already put out a statement distancing themselves from his actions and Hansi Kursch who has been put in an invidious position by this - I can't see him continuing Demons and Wizards after this.
Television is the opium of the people

kanet666 wrote: I can deal with the odd Slipknot track now and then. Pantera on the other hand are dreadful and I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a rusty fork than put up with them.

User avatar
metaldinosaur
Leather Rebel
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:56 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby metaldinosaur » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:10 pm

bloodofthekings wrote:Someone with a bit more knowledge on fascism and how it develops than any of us making an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/stat ... 1284874240


That was great.

It went pretty metal at the end too!
Welcome to a brave new world/ The future here or haven't you heard?

User avatar
Black Wizard
Leather Rebel
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:47 pm

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Black Wizard » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:52 am

Hi all, regarding my rather inflammatory comments about one particular member the other day I would like to clarify that I was not being serious and it was an attempt at satire (although a rather poor one I suppose) based on a few rather unpleasant posts I can recall over the last couple of years from which I built a caricature that gave me some internal amusement. The posts I was attempting to parody probably don't exist anymore as I think the forum deletes threads after a period of inactivity. However, on reflection I realize that I was over-the-top and should have just kept it to myself. It's not the kind of standard I set for myself and I would prefer not to sink to the level of the posts that I was attempting to parody.

Obviously I have no reason to accuse anyone of having such extreme political views and definitely don't suspect anyone here of supporting what happened in Washington last week. I would like to apologize to those of you who are active on the forum for temporarily derailing the thread and I have to wish to start fights or bring the festival into any disrepute. I deleted the aforementioned comments from my post and I will be more careful in any future posts I might make on this forum. :)

i0th2
Warrior of Metal
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 11:26 pm

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby i0th2 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:56 am

Sounds like the feds got to Black Wizard!

bloodofthekings
Hell Bent for Leather
Posts: 2008
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:38 am
Location: Leeds
Contact:

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby bloodofthekings » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:59 am

Black Wizard wrote:Hi all, regarding my rather inflammatory comments about one particular member the other day I would like to clarify that I was not being serious and it was an attempt at satire (although a rather poor one I suppose) based on a few rather unpleasant posts I can recall over the last couple of years from which I built a caricature that gave me some internal amusement. The posts I was attempting to parody probably don't exist anymore as I think the forum deletes threads after a period of inactivity. However, on reflection I realize that I was over-the-top and should have just kept it to myself. It's not the kind of standard I set for myself and I would prefer not to sink to the level of the posts that I was attempting to parody.

Obviously I have no reason to accuse anyone of having such extreme political views and definitely don't suspect anyone here of supporting what happened in Washington last week. I would like to apologize to those of you who are active on the forum for temporarily derailing the thread and I have to wish to start fights or bring the festival into any disrepute. I deleted the aforementioned comments from my post and I will be more careful in any future posts I might make on this forum. :)


I really hope you wrote this entirely off your own back and not because you actually took any ridiculous threats of legal action seriously.

bloodfiend
Denim Demon
Posts: 3383
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:30 pm

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby bloodfiend » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:05 pm

Black Wizard wrote:Hi all, regarding my rather inflammatory comments about one particular member the other day I would like to clarify that I was not being serious and it was an attempt at satire (although a rather poor one I suppose) based on a few rather unpleasant posts I can recall over the last couple of years from which I built a caricature that gave me some internal amusement. The posts I was attempting to parody probably don't exist anymore as I think the forum deletes threads after a period of inactivity. However, on reflection I realize that I was over-the-top and should have just kept it to myself. It's not the kind of standard I set for myself and I would prefer not to sink to the level of the posts that I was attempting to parody.

Obviously I have no reason to accuse anyone of having such extreme political views and definitely don't suspect anyone here of supporting what happened in Washington last week. I would like to apologize to those of you who are active on the forum for temporarily derailing the thread and I have to wish to start fights or bring the festival into any disrepute. I deleted the aforementioned comments from my post and I will be more careful in any future posts I might make on this forum. :)


Lol, did you have to post a public apology or face the gas chamber?

I really wouldn't worry, Gandalf has made stupid and antagonistic posts on here for a long while, and therefore he should expect a fallout from that. Not just that, but some of Gandalf's posts (ie Covid is just a cold, we should let thousands of people die to get the economy back on track etc), clearly ARE suggestive of a fascist viewpoint.
Last edited by bloodfiend on Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bloodfiend
Denim Demon
Posts: 3383
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:30 pm

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby bloodfiend » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:05 pm

Bleh double post wank

User avatar
metaldinosaur
Leather Rebel
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:56 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby metaldinosaur » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:26 pm

bloodofthekings wrote:
Black Wizard wrote:Hi all, regarding my rather inflammatory comments about one particular member the other day I would like to clarify that I was not being serious and it was an attempt at satire (although a rather poor one I suppose) based on a few rather unpleasant posts I can recall over the last couple of years from which I built a caricature that gave me some internal amusement. The posts I was attempting to parody probably don't exist anymore as I think the forum deletes threads after a period of inactivity. However, on reflection I realize that I was over-the-top and should have just kept it to myself. It's not the kind of standard I set for myself and I would prefer not to sink to the level of the posts that I was attempting to parody.

Obviously I have no reason to accuse anyone of having such extreme political views and definitely don't suspect anyone here of supporting what happened in Washington last week. I would like to apologize to those of you who are active on the forum for temporarily derailing the thread and I have to wish to start fights or bring the festival into any disrepute. I deleted the aforementioned comments from my post and I will be more careful in any future posts I might make on this forum. :)


I really hope you wrote this entirely off your own back and not because you actually took any ridiculous threats of legal action seriously.



Yes, being respectful on the Internet is good, but his threat was spurious and mean spirited.

Perhaps he was joking. I'd like to think so, because how empty must you be to be to start with legal threats on a forum?
Welcome to a brave new world/ The future here or haven't you heard?

User avatar
Czech's Mate
Denim Demon
Posts: 4128
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:58 pm
Location: Northampton....not Wellingborough!

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Czech's Mate » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:49 pm

bloodofthekings wrote:I really hope you wrote this entirely off your own back and not because you actually took any ridiculous threats of legal action seriously.



This! If I recall correctly there have been a number of occasions when certain people or a certain person ----mentioning no name for fear of getting sued!-----have made a number of rather exceptional claims or accusations on here that could have been taken as defamatory if the recipient had decided to be a total arse but as yet other than being threatened with having to buy the mods a drink (see the thread.....I still think I owe a couple of pints for historic squabbling if AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH is reading) Nothing has ever happened and I don't believe it ever will.....it's a music thread on a metal forum FFS

These threads have always had incendiary comments and I for one don't take them seriously......though I do think the mods take the demands for a pint seriously.

Overall I don't think it is or ever was an issue
Television is the opium of the people

kanet666 wrote: I can deal with the odd Slipknot track now and then. Pantera on the other hand are dreadful and I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a rusty fork than put up with them.

User avatar
Ghost
Hell Bent for Leather
Posts: 2752
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:09 pm

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Ghost » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:29 pm

Czech's Mate wrote: buy the mods a drink


Ah the days when there used to be mods on here :lol:
I see the bad moon arising.

User avatar
gavdann
Slayer of Wimps/Posers
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:54 am
Location: Ipswich

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby gavdann » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:02 pm

Ghost wrote:
Czech's Mate wrote: buy the mods a drink


Ah the days when there used to be mods on here :lol:

I thought this had always been a hangout for rockers only. :D

User avatar
metaldinosaur
Leather Rebel
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:56 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby metaldinosaur » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:10 pm

gavdann wrote:
Ghost wrote:
Czech's Mate wrote: buy the mods a drink


Ah the days when there used to be mods on here :lol:

I thought this had always been a hangout for rockers only. :D


Sixties joke - Hadouken!
Welcome to a brave new world/ The future here or haven't you heard?