So much for Iced Earth...

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Bizza
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So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Bizza » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:54 am

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/polic ... -offenses/

Hope they catch him and throw the fucking book at him, disgusted that I actually spent time watching IE at Bloodstock.
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Haldamir319
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Haldamir319 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:47 am

Not hugely surprised; always seemed a bit of a far right loon whenever he spoke about politics.

Agreed on them throwing the book at him (and everyone else there).
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i0th2
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby i0th2 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:22 am

I really really like Iced Earth but they're a band I could live without, Demons & Wizards however :(

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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby bloodfiend » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:46 am

He's got himself pride of place in the Guardian article:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... dApp_Other

So basically he's now the poster boy for this retarded shit.

Like Burzum, knowing the guy is a twat won't stop me from ever listening to Iced Earth again, but I won't want to see them again. This will probably be the last of Demons & Wizards cos I doubt Hansi will want to be associated with him after thism
Last edited by bloodfiend on Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i0th2
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby i0th2 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:01 am

Probably a lifetime ban from Germany, marching with Nazis doesn't go down so well over there.

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Ghost
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Ghost » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:00 am

Ha ha mental. How can they not see what a coward Trump is. Is he really worth getting arrested for and ruining your income. I mean Trump said he'd march to the building with them and didn't.

I won't be seeing them again. I wasn't really planning on seeing Iced Earth again anyway because I've seen them enough. Shame about Demons and Wizards.
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby metaldinosaur » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:53 pm

Assuming he hasn’t actually hurt anyone, this won’t change my relationship with iced earth’s music at all.

It’s not ideal of course, but John has always been right wing and a a bit of a conspiracy nut. I don’t think he as ever hidden it. I feel the same about Robb Flynn’s American-lefty ranting, utterly conceited and totally gross, but it doesn’t stop my listening to Burn My Eyes.

If you feel your constitution is now somehow compromised by subsequently absorbing someone’s art then I feel you need to take a better account of your own sense of self.
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Powerslave
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Powerslave » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:03 pm

you think one bloke being an SJW and vocally anti-racism is the same as someone being involved in what amounts to an attempted coup along side genuine Nazis?

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metaldinosaur
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby metaldinosaur » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:06 pm

Powerslave wrote:you think one bloke being an SJW and vocally anti-racism is the same as someone being involved in what amounts to an attempted coup along side genuine Nazis?


No I don’t. But I do not know that John is a Nazi, and so far, neither do you.
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Bizza
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Bizza » Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:08 pm

metaldinosaur wrote:
Powerslave wrote:you think one bloke being an SJW and vocally anti-racism is the same as someone being involved in what amounts to an attempted coup along side genuine Nazis?


No I don’t. But I do not know that John is a Nazi, and so far, neither do you.


But he did attempt a coup alongside actual Nazis, which is far worse than anything Robb Flynn has ever done.
BOA - '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, '18,' 19.
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Black Wizard » Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:22 pm

Iced Earth are one of my favourite bands. I've been fan since I was 15 and I remember when I first bought one of their albums - 'Something Wicked This Way Comes'. I've generally always been aware of Jon's weird political views but I haven't been too bothered by them as I tend not to pay much attention to musicians' political opinions and the music was generally apolitical enough. He definitely went through his weirdest phase musically post-World Trade Centre Attacks with the nationalism on 'The Glorious Burden' and the bat-shit crazy 'Something Wicked' pair of albums. Once Stu Block joined the band Jon seemed to calm down with the weirdness musically and Iced Earth were actually on a bit of an upward trajectory since then. This year I have seen more stories on websites like Blabbermouth about him promoting conspiracy theories about the pandemic, illuminati and Qanon but I just laughed it off since Iced Earth are not a particularly big band so he doesn't have a big platform.

However, I was disgusted to see that he was involved with the fascist terrorist attack on the US Capitol building. I've suspected that he would be a Trump supporter for the last few years but I didn't realize just how far gone he was. He will never get any more of my money. I will not buy another Iced Earth album or buy another concert ticket to see them. I have seen them four times and own all their studio albums, one live album and 2 DVDs. Never again. I will still listen to the music from time to time as I can separate the music from the man to a certain extent, but Jon Schaffer is now dead to me. The FBI and Washington DC police are after him and I hope he goes to jail and we never hear from him again.

Until yesterday I was using an Iced Earth avatar on this forum, but I removed it shortly after I saw the news yesterday morning. Let's chuck him in the bin with Phil Anselmo, but he's probably more likely to appear at Bloodstock now given the sort of people who get on the line-up.

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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby metaldinosaur » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:11 pm

Bizza wrote:
metaldinosaur wrote:
Powerslave wrote:you think one bloke being an SJW and vocally anti-racism is the same as someone being involved in what amounts to an attempted coup along side genuine Nazis?


No I don’t. But I do not know that John is a Nazi, and so far, neither do you.


But he did attempt a coup alongside actual Nazis, which is far worse than anything Robb Flynn has ever done.


This may end up being true. If it does, it will change my perception of his character. Yet, so far, it is not yet clear that a coup was part of his motivation. Those people gathered for various reasons, a number appear to have regarded it as revolutionary; many I’m sure did not, regarding it as protest - illegal though it may be.

As it stands, we do not know his personal motives for his actions. There appears to be many people in those crowds with various fringe iconography, some are extreme right including nazi. But let it be clear, guilt by association should never be regarded as guilt; it’s often very worthy of investigation, but not more than that at this stage. He has, it appears, broken American law, he will be likely to face justice, hopefully proportional to the crime, and I support that.

I could see Robb braking the law alongside antifa people, in the name of protest, if Trump had won. It’s certainly not a big leap to imagine it. I wouldn’t think him a communist/revolutionary by association mind.

Even if he was, it would not change how I felt about his music.

John described himself as libertarian, I don’t not agree with this stance politically, and the fact that he broke the law for such beliefs doesn’t make me respect him more, quite the contrary, but it doesn’t change how I feel about his music.

The comparison, at the time of writing is a good one.

Relating it to my initial point: It certainly doesn’t make someone a better person for disavowing an artist for such reasons and I feel there is a lack of maturity or perhaps even fortitude inside someone who does. I don’t say this to upset anyone, but it is how I feel.
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby bloodofthekings » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:35 pm

Even if you think Rob Flynn is being smug or finding problems where they don't exist, I really don't see how you can equate someone being vocally anti-racist with someone who took part in an act of fascism and tried to stop a democratically elected President from being confirmed.

Schaffer could have stayed outside across the street with other protestors and screamed "Stop the Steal" and other pro-Trump slogans down a fucking megaphone for all I care - I'd have thought he was a fucking idiot but that's it. But the moment he crossed that line and forced his way into the building it became an act of fascism and as much as I love the music of Iced Earth and Demons & Wizards and will still listen to the songs from time to time, I can't see me ever going to see either band live again - I just wouldn't enjoy the show knowing what he did. Same with Pantera's music and seeing Anselmo live - just can't bring myself to do it.

May be all a moot point anyway as I don't know if the other members of Iced Earth and Demons & Wizards will want anything to do with him after this

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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby metaldinosaur » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:28 pm

bloodofthekings wrote:Even if you think Rob Flynn is being smug or finding problems where they don't exist, I really don't see how you can equate someone being vocally anti-racist with someone who took part in an act of fascism and tried to stop a democratically elected President from being confirmed.

Schaffer could have stayed outside across the street with other protestors and screamed "Stop the Steal" and other pro-Trump slogans down a fucking megaphone for all I care - I'd have thought he was a fucking idiot but that's it. But the moment he crossed that line and forced his way into the building it became an act of fascism and as much as I love the music of Iced Earth and Demons & Wizards and will still listen to the songs from time to time, I can't see me ever going to see either band live again - I just wouldn't enjoy the show knowing what he did. Same with Pantera's music and seeing Anselmo live - just can't bring myself to do it.

May be all a moot point anyway as I don't know if the other members of Iced Earth and Demons & Wizards will want anything to do with him after this


We don't know the specifics of what he's done or what he thinks yet. My judgment on him personally is therefore, reserved till I do, and rightly so.

The American left/right paradigm is a mess. People on both sides feel disenfranchised. To make an anathema of a person or people because you disagree with them is wrong, both morally, and most importantly ergonomically - things will only get worse if people don't start to have real empathy towards those whom they set themselves against politically. The knee jerk reaction on here has actually shocked be a bit. Its disappointing, because you all seem so much smarter than most of the Internet.

The law will deal with John as it should, everyone else should deal with him, and people like him, better than they currently are doing. Absolutism is the enemy of synergy and stability.
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Re: So much for Iced Earth...

Postby Powerslave » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:47 pm

ah, the old classic "people need to be more politically tolerant" followed immediately by "you're not smart because you have a different opinion to me"

it comes down to people not wanting to support and put money into the pocket of someone who they have fundamentally come to dislike. if you were a regular in a pub and one day you found out the landlord was doing things you found morally unacceptable, you'd go and drink somewhere else.

it's an extreme example of course, but you wouldn't say "well, Ian Watkins has been dealt with by the law, so i'm going to keep wearing my Lostprophets shirt"