The (Un) Official Football thread

[houston4044]

The last two days has seen some of the best CL I've seen in awhile, was very entertaining and a roller coaster ride throughout. Usually find it quite underwhelming at times, while I understand teams don't want to lose rather than win, it does make for some boring viewing. Good to see some teams go out with guns blazing and try to win a tie for once.

[Black Wizard]

Good to see some teams go out with guns blazing and try to win a tie for once.

If not for the away goals rule we might see it more often.

[houston4044]

Not lose to the team rock bottom of the league at home, you also gift your rivals the title; painful day to be a Utd fan. Jose was somewhat calm which was a shame; was hoping for him going mental again

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

As a United fan I didn't really feel pissed off about it at all. The title race was over months ago so the only thing left was to deny them a big climactic victory to clinch the trophy (and hope that's the only trophy they'll lift- cheers Liverpool!) We pissed on their parade at the Emptyhad, then a week later most of them found out by text or when they got off the golf course that they were now champions and had to organise an improptu celebration on the fly. Pretty funny in its own way.

[houston4044]

Nobody's mentioned Wenger yet? Can't seem to escape it today

Coming from a Spurs fan, I've always liked Wenger as a manager, his style of managing is a great yet dying art; if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have Pochettino now. Unfortunately it's a style that relies on long term planning and a huge element of luck, he's had a barren patch of late and think Arsenal fans are aiming too high really and should have stuck it out.

I can see Arsenal becoming just another club rather having a unique identity, they'll try and buy success and when it doesn't go their way they'll just chop and change regularly. Whoever follows Wenger I wish them luck, they'll need it

[Skippy]

I'm sure I've said it before - when Wenger leaves Arsenal will just be a mid table club. They don't have the resources to aim higher. I hope whoever comes in is given a few years to build up - hell, I hope they already have someone in mind and who actually wants to come. I'm sure they are hoping they win the Europa this year and thus can actually provide Champion's League football next year, just to make them a bit more attractive to good managers.

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have Pochettino now.

Why he has such unwavering supports amongst Spurs fans is a mystery to me. Yes he's technically right when he says you need to win the Prem or the CL to be a big club, but when you're out of the running for both those trophies there is no excuse for not going all guns blazing at an FA Cup semi-final. But what did Pocchetino do? Start with his second choice keeper (who made two decents saves in fairness) and tell the players it's not a must-win game. Whatever happened to "To dare is to do"? I was actually insulted by how little desire he and most of the Spurs team showed us today. Eriksen was the only player out there who looked like he wanted to win. After all the talk about Harry Kane claiming goals that weren't his he should be blasted for even claiming he was on the pitch today.

Four seasons for Pocchetino at Spurs with the best English striker since Shearer, two creative midfielders who are wanted by Europe's biggest clubs, a world class goalkeeper, a Belgian defensive partnership that is one of the most talented in Europe and more at his disposal- zero trophies. And after today I'm convinced Spurs never will win a trophy with him.

tl;dr version: Mauricio out blud.

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

I was also a little insulted by the BBC trying to frame today as some sort of clash between FA Cup titans. "20 FA Cups between them!" Lineker proclaimed. Yeah, and Spurs have only won 8 of those 20, none of them in the last two decades and have now lost 8 semi-finals in a row. It's ridiculous to say they have a pedigree anywhere near United's in this or any competition.

[Darkweasel]

After all the talk about Harry Kane claiming goals that weren't his he should be blasted for even claiming he was on the pitch today.

I only got to see forty minutes of the second half, but (and I'm being serious - not saying this to try and be funny) I genuinely didn't realise Kane was actually playing until I heard his name mentioned somewhere around the 75th minute.

[houston4044]

if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have Pochettino now.

Why he has such unwavering supports amongst Spurs fans is a mystery to me. Yes he's technically right when he says you need to win the Prem or the CL to be a big club, but when you're out of the running for both those trophies there is no excuse for not going all guns blazing at an FA Cup semi-final. But what did Pocchetino do? Start with his second choice keeper (who made two decents saves in fairness) and tell the players it's not a must-win game. Whatever happened to "To dare is to do"? I was actually insulted by how little desire he and most of the Spurs team showed us today. Eriksen was the only player out there who looked like he wanted to win. After all the talk about Harry Kane claiming goals that weren't his he should be blasted for even claiming he was on the pitch today.

Four seasons for Pocchetino at Spurs with the best English striker since Shearer, two creative midfielders who are wanted by Europe's biggest clubs, a world class goalkeeper, a Belgian defensive partnership that is one of the most talented in Europe and more at his disposal- zero trophies. And after today I'm convinced Spurs never will win a trophy with him.

tl;dr version: Mauricio out blud.

I'm more than happy with Poch, for the first time since Redknapp (sounds like a backhanded compliment but it's not) we've had stability and a philosophy and actually seem to be moving in the right direction. He's willing to work with the budget we've got which means smart buys and use of younger players (rather than just buy name players). Rather than get a journeyman we've got ourselves someone (hopefully) for the long term which is what clubs without deep pockets need (not that Spurs are poor but still a drop between us and the Chelski's)

I'd take the Wenger trophy of consistent top 4 finishes over a 6-7 place finish with a cup, I think the fixation on silverware is overrated and often leads to clubs to go to pot in the process. Hell, look at Wigan, if I had been in their shoes I'd of taken Prem survival over an FA cup win.

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

Can't disagree with that more. Silverware is the only reasonable measure of success in football. Without it a club are perennial failures, which is exactly what Spurs and Pochettino are at present.

[Black Wizard]

Can't disagree with that more. Silverware is the only reasonable measure of success in football. Without it a club are perennial failures, which is exactly what Spurs and Pochettino are at present.

I agree with you about silverware. If I supported an English team then I'd be far more excited about the prospect of winning the FA Cup than finishing fourth. If you aim for fourth every year then you'll eventually slip up, like Arsenal. Why not just aim to win the league instead, then if you don't manage that fourth place is a reasonable consolation.

Calling Spurs and Pochettino "perennial failures" is harsh. They've come a long way under Pochettino. To have actually challenged for the league was a big step for Spurs, even though they did fail in the end and fall behind Arsenal again with the 5-0 defeat to relegated Newcastle.They made good progress in the Champions League this year despite choking against Juventus. There's a big difference between Spurs under Pochettino and the Redknapp-era. Harry would never have thought to bring in the players that Pochettino has. Too much of a wheeler-dealer! I suppose if they don't manage to win a trophy soon then Pochettino and some of the top players will move on for considerable fees, but the transformation of the squad and their league position should be considered a success.

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

Building a squad is all well and good but if you can't motivate them to actually go out and win something tangible (i.e. trophies) then it's not a success. This is why Pochettino is a flop. He's got a world class squad and is letting it go to waste because he has no winning attitude.

It's like Spurs and their fans actually want to be remembered for always being second best, having all the potential in the world but never winning any trophies as if that's somehow more romantic or something. Is their end goal to be like Newcastle United circa 1995-1999? Because at least when they had that killer squad and came runner up twice in the league and twice in the cup in the space of 4 years they actually were trying their damnedest to win the bloody things.

[houston4044]

It depends on how you look at things really, obviously I'd love Spurs to win the league and would say that's the ultimate domestic goal but I would say 4th is a minimum barometer of success and one in that if they failed to reach then I'd say the season was unsuccessful even with a (non European) trophy victory; it would only be a consolation prize.

Case in point: http://www.chelsea-news.co/2018/04/will-not-make-season-willian-issues-warning-chelsea-teammates-forget-making-fa-cup-seasons-top-objective/

For me, top prizes for Spurs would be
1. Champions League
2. Premiership
3. Europa
4. 4th or above in Prem
------- Anything below would be an unsuccessful season
5. Europa qualifying spots
6. FA Cup
7. League cup

[Black Wizard]

Building a squad is all well and good but if you can't motivate them to actually go out and win something tangible (i.e. trophies) then it's not a success. This is why Pochettino is a flop. He's got a world class squad and is letting it go to waste because he has no winning attitude.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

For me, top prizes for Spurs would be
1. Champions League
2. Premiership
3. Europa
4. 4th or above in Prem
------- Anything below would be an unsuccessful season
5. Europa qualifying spots
6. FA Cup
7. League cup

Surely winning either domestic cup competition is better than getting a UEFA Cup qualifying spot in the league? It's the same outcome but with a damn trophy!