The (Un) Official Football thread

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

Very well done to Liverpool. I would've liked to see that game run at 4-2 for the last 10 minutes just for some drama but they deserved the win as narrow as it was. Two very entertaining semi-finals in a very entertaining Champions League season. I think we could be in for a very high-scoring final too.

[Metalchemyst]

There's English county cricket and an English county rugby tournament so why no county football?

[Gandalf the Red]

There's English county cricket and an English county rugby tournament so why no county football?

They're trying to kill off County Cricket. New idea is 100 ball games which make T20 look like five day tests.

Southampton, Birmingham, Leeds, London, Manchester, Cardiff and Nottingham have been selected as venues for the five-week competition which will not overlap the existing T20 Blast.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43828189

I tell you now, I'm not supporting them if they call the team Manchester rather than Lancs.

[Gandalf the Red]

As for the football. I think the Bitters are going to be sucking lemons for the next month or so.

[Metalchemyst]

They're trying to kill off County Cricket. New idea is 100 ball games which make T20 look like five day tests.

Southampton, Birmingham, Leeds, London, Manchester, Cardiff and Nottingham have been selected as venues for the five-week competition which will not overlap the existing T20 Blast.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43828189

I tell you now, I'm not supporting them if they call the team Manchester rather than Lancs.

That does look like a move towards a kids' game. Pelican Cricket. They should bring back something like the Yorkshire birthright rule and apply it to all the county teams.

Getting back on topic, what do you think of these ideas for improving football?

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles ... rule-ideas

[houston4044]

Twofold congrats to Liverpool, not only did you make the final but you did it in a very entertaining manner, the drama last night was great. I hope that the final sees both teams continue on as they have, slightly dodgy defenses and stellar attacking players to make for a high scoring match!

And United buying trophies? Not a chance.

Early 90's, beat Barcelona for the Cup Winners Cup with a team of aging ex-academy talents and players bought from the liked of Oldham and Norwich. Dominated the league and cup for the rest of the decade thanks to one of the best youth teams of all time and a few smart purchases; Cantona was out favour with Leeds when we paid £1.5m for him and most people thought even that was a risky purchase, and we got Schmeichel before he was considered the best in the world for half a mil. We did break the British transfer record for Andy Cole but he was just part of the revolving lineup at the front along with relative bargains Yorke, Sherringham and Solskjaer that won us the treble in 1998-99. We also broke the world record for a defender twice but in both cases they were only half of an incredible partnership. For most of the noughties the team was focused around that famous youth team as well and even when we did spend big (Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy) we were buying players young and developing them into world class stars, not buying ready made guaranteed trophy-winners.

I did say in my prior post I was referring to recent years. The most recent player out of all the ones you've mentioned left 9 years ago. Since then Utd have blown that perception of themselves out of the water, and that's not just me trying to score points here

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-transfer-targets-mourinho-14411767

Rather than turn this into a slating match, I'll return this to the original point I was trying to make, it all boils down to your perspective. To me Spurs are doing well all things considered and I am content as a fan; we're not throwing money at it (like I think Utd, Chelsea and City are) like those close to us in the table and things to be in hand for once after a few chaotic years.

TL;DR Lots of money is spent in football

[houston4044]

There's English county cricket and an English county rugby tournament so why no county football?

Because the FA haven't got round to squandering the money from selling off Wembley yet, give it a few years and they'll underfund that idea too

[Black Wizard]

RIP wet Tuesday nights in November at Stoke.

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

I did say in my prior post I was referring to recent years. The most recent player out of all the ones you've mentioned left 9 years ago. Since then Utd have blown that perception of themselves out of the water, and that's not just me trying to score points here

I actually had more to write in that post but my train was pulling into the station at the time!

Let's look at the last time United won the league in 2012-13. Who did we have? The last of the Class Of '92 were still kicking around (Scholes and Giggs) along with some younger youth system players like Evans, Rafael, Welbeck and Cleverley. Evra and Vidic were both bargains at £7m and £5.5m while bigger money was actually spent on far less influential (at the time) players like Phil Jones and Antonio Valencia who came from much smaller Premier League clubs. See also Carrick and Young, although they were far more important. Big international purchases like Nani, Chicharito and Anderson had become more fringe players by that point while Shinji Kagawa was hardly a big splash at £12m.

Only Ferdinand, Rooney, Van Persie and maybe De Gea (in his second season there were still doubts about his slender frame) could you point to and say there are the big money spends that won United the league that year. And even then, £18.9m for De Gea and £24m for Van Persie were hardly insane transfer fees. Rooney and Ferdinand obviously seemed like crazy money at the time but both proved to be well worth it.

Here's the kicker though- None of them had ever won the Prem before coming to United. In fact nobody in the squad that year had ever won one of Europe's top 5 leagues before apart from Shinji Kagawa who was a 2-time Bundesliga winner with Dortmund. The only other major trophy winners in their pre-United careers were De Gea and Van Persie who'd both won the Uefa Cup.

So tell me, how can we be accused of buying trophies if we mostly buy players who haven't won much silverware before?

[houston4044]

Let's look at the last time United won the league in 2012-13.

So tell me, how can we be accused of buying trophies if we mostly buy players who haven't won much silverware before?

You've won three more trophies since then with teams that are quite different to the one that year (5 players remain) so I could just point to them in detail but I cba.

Easy... just because a player hasn't won many accolades doesn't mean they're not an amazing player or a means of buying a trophy. Would you say that the transfers of Countinho, Suarez and Bale weren't a way of buying a trophy even though they hadn't won many trophies before?

If your just looking at the silverware they've won then Alan Shearer and Matt Le Tissier are some of the worst players in history.

As I've said, it's a matter of perspective, I didn't think it was going to go this far but since it has I'll elaborate a bit more. To me, since Fergie left you have shattered the illusion of a team that builds from within and instead buys big name players for short term success (not surprising when Mouriniho is your manager to be fair) simply off of their name. I imagine Arsenal will follow with Wenger gone.

[houston4044]

(case in point of perspective)
Maybe have been painful and a slump over the finishing line but we've made it into the top 4 and into the CL for the 3rd season running, which is what I had hoped for this season so mission accomplished. Hopefully we can build on this and make it further in Europe next season.

Also the highest finish for any London club as well for the first time since '95 which is a nice little tidbit

[Black Wizard]

Also the highest finish for any London club as well for the first time since '95 which is a nice little tidbit

What?

[houston4044]

Also the highest finish for any London club as well for the first time since '95 which is a nice little tidbit

What?

I've got to stop posting when i'm knackered

Spurs have finished higher than any other London club for the first time since '95

[Matty_the_Emo_Slayer]

If your just looking at the silverware they've won then Alan Shearer and Matt Le Tissier are some of the worst players in history.

As I said earlier, silverware is the only reasonable measurement of a team's success. An individual player's skill level is a completely different discussion.

It's also highly hypocritical of a Spurs fan to accuse other clubs of spending big as "buying trophies." Let's have a look at your recent spending history- £22m for Son, £23m for Aurier and £25m for Moura (both who've won trophies in France and internationally), £26m for Lamela, £30m for Sissoko, £42m for Sanchez...

None of those are record-breaking transfers sure, but neither have United's buys in recent years (aside from Pogba, who can still be counted as a home-grown United player.) You're doing the exact same thing we are- buying talented players from other leagues and smaller English clubs, some who have won trophies before but mostly who haven't, and balancing the team with players who've come through our youth system. The latter part is what separates us from the likes of City and Chelsea who don't have that culture of building from within.

The difference is? We actually have something to show for it because unlike Pocchetino we have a manager that can actually motivate players to win trophies.

[Skippy]

It's also highly hypocritical of a Spurs fan to accuse other clubs of spending big as "buying trophies." Let's have a look at your recent spending history- £22m for Son, £23m for Aurier and £25m for Moura (both who've won trophies in France and internationally), £26m for Lamela, £30m for Sissoko, £42m for Sanchez...

None of those are record-breaking transfers sure, but neither have United's buys in recent years (aside from Pogba, who can still be counted as a home-grown United player.) You're doing the exact same thing we are- buying talented players from other leagues and smaller English clubs, some who have won trophies before but mostly who haven't, and balancing the team with players who've come through our youth system. The latter part is what separates us from the likes of City and Chelsea who don't have that culture of building from within.

The difference is? We actually have something to show for it because unlike Pocchetino we have a manager that can actually motivate players to win trophies.

I'm sorry but no. There is no comparison between the way Spurs is run and the way United is now. Spurs constantly live within their means - all those players they are buying were funded for by selling other players. There is absolutely no comparison with the way United are buying whoever the fuck they feel like for whatever money. Despite your justifications, Pogba was still a world record transfer fee for a player who has never really looked like deserving it. Just to sum it up there's this table:
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons
For those who don't want to click the link - United have made a loss of 87 million in the last 5 years. Spurs? 400 thousand. The third lowest in the league, and by a comfortable margin. And that's without factoring in the fact that Spurs famously pay far less in wages. It's what makes their success so spectacular - in this day and age, even coming close to making a profit is an achievement.