The Wrestling Thread

Put the world to rights here (off-topic discussion)
AidanParry
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby AidanParry » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:41 pm

Rumour has it that there will be a revolution in WWE coming soon, with the likes of Big Show, Ziggler and Miz all refusing to comment I could see them being the front runners to lead it. WWE have hit the spot perfectly to gain ratings, they've turned Daniel Bryan into the face of the company without giving him the WWE title. Never liked Orton as a face, found him boring and monotonous.

I would be annoyed if they turned CM Punk into an I.C champion though, but it would raise the belts quality which has been lacking for some time.

I could also see John Cena coming back from injury and unleashing hell on Randy Orton and/or Triple H (Possible Wrestlemania match?)

It's also about time they tried to increase the popularity of the Divas championship, everytime a Divas match is on it gets so boring, they've had to make Total Divas to increase popularity but at the moment, AJ Lee is carrying that division on her own.

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Bearstock » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:18 pm

Matty_the_Emo_Slayer wrote:
Also the whole idea of Shawn Michaels getting pushed by sucking off McMahon. I reeeeeally don't buy that for a second. One because I can't see Vince being interested in coercing men into sucking his dick (female referees in the back of his limo was much more his style...), and secondly there is no great mystery to how he became a main eventer- he was the best in-ring performer of his generation. Sure there was also the fact that in order to keep The Kliq from jumping ship to WCW they were given a lot of influence in how they were booked, but Kliq or no Kliq we always would have seen Shawn Michaels as WWF Champion one way or another.

I've also heard a rumour about the Kliq members spying on Pat Patterson with a gigolo and one of them (either Michaels or Nash, i'm not sure) throwing up from the sight so I can't picture Michaels as being gay then, or especially now as a born-again Christian with 2 kids.


Dude there's SO MANY rumours and stories from back in the day about what may or may not have happened on the road.

I'd say most of them are rubbish to be fair.

As for a WWE revolution?

Just get some damn structure and wrestling people in the Creative team.

Create a new title, not a cruiserweight belt or a hardcore one nor an X division. Just have say the NXT belt and use it for the lower card guys.

Unify the WWE and World titles whilst scrapping the draft split.

You then have a clear focus with your main eventers. A handful in the title contention with a non title feud/storyline to run alongside.

Scrapping the US Title and have a clear group of midcard talent having genuine feuds for the Intercontinetal title.

There is a proper tag team division.

Fire the models who can't wrestle for shit. Have a proper womens division with a handful of pretty women as eye candy valets.



You always knew Crash Holly for example. You knew he was never likely to be a WWF Champion but he had a place and a purpose.

Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho had some outstanding matches for the Intercontinental Title and you knew they would in a few years go on to become main event stars.

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Matty_the_Emo_Slayer
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:28 pm

Bearstock wrote:You always knew Crash Holly for example. You knew he was never likely to be a WWF Champion but he had a place and a purpose.



This is the crux of it. Everyone badmouths Russo but the way he and Ed Ferrara ran things when it was just the two of them was they had 2 days each week to write 90 minutes of television with 2 dozen guys and their job was to get every one of them as over as possible- it was the best era of wrestling TV period.

The thing is, the talent they have is the greatest it's ever been, but there's too many guys full stop and too many of the inferior ones getting ahead for the wrong reasons. There's no impetus to try and get everyone over any more and use people to their best advantages, and when there's many many more pro wrestlers out there than 20 years ago and nowhere near as much a formidable competition as 20 years ago those guys have become completely expendable.

I like HHH's idea of bringing back Attitude Era more loosely scripted promos to enforce more creativity out of the young talent, but if you really want to have a revolution in WWE they need to massively restructure how the TV is written. Smaller teams for each show working under the overall direction of McMahon and HHH, and bring in guys who actually have experience in the wrestling business, even if only as a fan, and only sign them to 5 year contracts. Jim Cornette has a theory that wrestling booker's only have 5 years of good ideas and then they become boring, repetitive and too full of shit to accept what's new. He even proves the rule himself. The best periods of WWE TV are when they brought in bookers/writers who had done great things creatively in other companies- Dusty Rhodes, Cornette, Heyman etc... Why have they not done the same with guys like Gabe Sapolsky from ROH?
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Bearstock » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:34 pm

Matty_the_Emo_Slayer wrote:
Bearstock wrote:You always knew Crash Holly for example. You knew he was never likely to be a WWF Champion but he had a place and a purpose.



This is the crux of it. Everyone badmouths Russo but the way he and Ed Ferrara ran things when it was just the two of them was they had 2 days each week to write 90 minutes of television with 2 dozen guys and their job was to get every one of them as over as possible- it was the best era of wrestling TV period.

The thing is, the talent they have is the greatest it's ever been, but there's too many guys full stop and too many of the inferior ones getting ahead for the wrong reasons. There's no impetus to try and get everyone over any more and use people to their best advantages, and when there's many many more pro wrestlers out there than 20 years ago and nowhere near as much a formidable competition as 20 years ago those guys have become completely expendable.

I like HHH's idea of bringing back Attitude Era more loosely scripted promos to enforce more creativity out of the young talent, but if you really want to have a revolution in WWE they need to massively restructure how the TV is written. Smaller teams for each show working under the overall direction of McMahon and HHH, and bring in guys who actually have experience in the wrestling business, even if only as a fan, and only sign them to 5 year contracts. Jim Cornette has a theory that wrestling booker's only have 5 years of good ideas and then they become boring, repetitive and too full of shit to accept what's new. He even proves the rule himself. The best periods of WWE TV are when they brought in bookers/writers who had done great things creatively in other companies- Dusty Rhodes, Cornette, Heyman etc... Why have they not done the same with guys like Gabe Sapolsky from ROH?


Couldn't agree more.

Having useless lumps like Khali because "he's a huge draw for the Indian market" and bringing back the Bellas for the reality show is stupid.

Imagine if guys like Kidd, Bourne, Cessaro, Zayn, Axel, Sin Cara and Hunico actually had something to fight for. Regularly featured each week with storylines and feuds opening up Raw and/or Smackdown.

As it stands they're just there in matches every so often to fill time if they're even on the shows at all.

Get the W in!

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby CrappyMike » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:58 pm

The problem with some of the people the internet seem to love, is they have zero charisma. Some of them just need a chance, but some of them will never get in a significant way, regardless of how good they are in the ring. In ring skills is only 1 part of what makes a great wrestler.

Brie Bella has had a few good matches lately, in case you skipped them or something.

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Kanwulf » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:32 pm

CrappyMike wrote:The problem with some of the people the internet seem to love, is they have zero charisma. Some of them just need a chance, but some of them will never get in a significant way, regardless of how good they are in the ring. In ring skills is only 1 part of what makes a great wrestler.

Brie Bella has had a few good matches lately, in case you skipped them or something.


Chris Benoit has no charisma but he got huge over
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Bearstock » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:47 pm

CrappyMike wrote:The problem with some of the people the internet seem to love, is they have zero charisma. Some of them just need a chance, but some of them will never get in a significant way, regardless of how good they are in the ring. In ring skills is only 1 part of what makes a great wrestler.

Brie Bella has had a few good matches lately, in case you skipped them or something.


In reference to the ones I mentioned, we're not talking world title reigns or anything. Just a focus and some actual intrigue being put into their matches and characters. Thus giving them an opportunity.

Brie Bella has improved from what she was (absolute garbage) but she is still distinctly average and there are far far better females out there.

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:43 pm

As I reckon one of the people you're referring to Mike is Antonio Cesaro, with guys like him I reckon part of the problem is that WWE don't allow people to use their own creativity any more. As Claudio Castignoli the guy had bucketloads of charisma and when he was trainer and booker in Chikara he showed his creative side too. WWE just seem intent on using him in the wrong way in my opinion.


Brie Bella has improved, but it still makes me weep compared to the quality of women's wrestling that's out there beyond WWE and, as improved as the knockouts have been recently, even far beyond what TNA can offer.

Somehow I managed to skip past the diva's match and AJ's promo when I watched RAW. Having gone back now she makes a hell of a lot of good points, but AJ Lee as the messiah of women's wrestling in the WWE. Really? She's competent, but she's no Luna Vachon or anything. And a lot of what she said applies to herself as well. Does she really think the IWC all fap themselves to sleep at night because of her wrestling skills? I like the emphasis she put on the word "suck" as well, ironic seeing as the rumour goes that's how she paid Jay Lethal for her training...

She's massively over-emphasizing how much she's had to work to get to the top spot of women's wrestling as well. She's been wrestling for 5 years and got signed to a developmental deal after like 2/3 years. There's at least a dozen girls in the WSU locker room where she used to wrestle who would make far better saviours to the diva's division than her, some of whom have been wrestling for twice as long as her, but will never get a fair shake from WWE because they're not pretty enough.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby The Warlord » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:43 am

I'm glad to see Managers making a return to WWE, there is a real need for them pairing them up with guys who have the in ring skills but not the Mic skills, so far there's Heymen and Colter you could kinda say Rodriguez aswell.

Have RVD turn and join Heymen he's a Paul E. guy and would benefit from Heymen talking for him plus we'd then get to see RVD vs CM Punk.

Like somebody else said unify the World Heavyweight/WWE Championships and the Intercontinental/United States Championship and end the brand split there's no need for it anymore and it's stretching talent to breaking point. Combined as one again going for ONE world title or the Intercontinental Title we would get fresher feuds instead of rehashing the same thing month after month.

Create a TV Title that the rule is it must be defended on all TV Programming e.g. Raw, Smackdown, Saturday Nights Main Event, Superstars Ect. This would be a title for all the young up and comers that don't have a chance often to go for the IC or WWE Title.

Reduce the number of PPV's to 5 a year Royal Rumble, Wrestle Mania, Night of Champions, Summer Slam & Survivor Series.
Change the Survivor Series format back to the Traditional 5 man Team vs 5 man team, the survivors of each Match advance to the Main Event later in the night .....The Money In the Bank Ladder Match.

The rest of the Themed PPVs are scrapped so when there is an Elimination Chamber, Hell in a Cell, TLC, extreme rules match ect it feels special to be seeing it again instead of watered down versions year after year

By decreasing the PPV output they can concentrate on building feuds, story lines to last over months instead of weeks like it used to be, taking the time to build it giving the viewer more to invest in and a bigger payoff when it blows off. Plus with no competition anymore WWE don't really need to be putting out 12-13 ppvs a year anymore.

Have the legends table at PPV pre-shows brought on to the main ppv shows full time where say Mean Gene has a legend or somebody not working the PPV with him they provide analysis on the show and the matches occasionally have a special guest to interview that could maybe start a fight with who Evers helping that day like the Miz or Kofi ect to set up a feud. And have that team hand back to the commentary team to call the action in the ring. Like pre- Attitude days the commentary ten didn't call the entire show they only called the action in the ring you'd have say Gorilla Monsoon & Jesse Ventura Call the show then hand back over to the commentary team of say Lord Alfred Hayes and Vince McMahon to call the action in the ring, then Mean Gene backstage doing interviews while Sean Mooney was in the arena on a podium or in the crowd doing interviews.

Also they should bring back the little interview boxes at the top of the screen having the superstar (and if applicable ) his manager saying Afew words whilst their in the ring wrestling. They still do this on old school raw and I think it still works great and means they can get more air time


Fire the dead weight that has never/will never get over e.g Great Khali, Mark Henry, Tensai.

Rejuvenate the Tag Team Division...actually at the moment it's the best it's been in years but give teams storylines again and try making proper teams out of lower superstars that arnt doing anything.
One idea I had was Tyson Kidd and Evan Bourne have both been out injured when there fit have them return together and say they got talking on the phone while they were injured as nobody even bothered to check on them not even their tag team partners Justin Gabriel and Kofi Kingston there you instantly get 2 new fresh Tag Teams with a Story you know their history, you know why their fighting you can invest in that and I think Kidd & Bourne vs Gabriel & Kingston would have some show stealing matches if allowed.

Somebody said about the bookers and Gabe Spoleske I agree with that and I kinda agree with what somebody said about Russo/Ferrera (although all their ideas had to go through Vince and he had the ultimate say, it's worth noting most of their ideas were rejected by Vince but when they jumped to WCW they had nobody to filter the good from the bad and we know what happened to WCW) anyway I agree they should stop getting Hollywood writers to book the shows I think they should hire Gabe as a booker along with Scott D'Amour ( who I think personally booked the very best years of TNA) have them 2 as the main bookers with a sub-booking team of say 6 veterans (eg. Arn Anderson, Terry Taylor, Paul Heyman, Michael Hayes, sgt slaughter, Road Dogg) to feed the main bookers supporting ideas, and for them to go book their own house shows, then every 6-12 months rotate a new 6 sub bookers in to their place (e.g. Pat Patterson, Ricky Steamboat, Tito Santana, JBL, Dutch Mantell, Billy Kidman) that way the main 2 bookers have their own ideas, they've got 6 people feeding them their ideas but those 6 get changed around to give another 6 fresh ideas while the original 6 get a break to come up with more ideas then there rotated back, all the ideas finally get passed along to HHH/ Steph/Vince for approval.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Hammer Smashed Custard » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:00 pm

Some good ideas there, reducing the number of PPVs is good in theory but WWE still turn a profit from them even though buyrates are nothing like what they were 10-15 years ago, the B Shows are lucky to break 150000 buys now so more emphesis on the main PPVs might be a good idea.

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Fliff » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:38 pm

Great ideas but one thing has rubbed me the wrong way!

The Warlord wrote:Fire the dead weight that has never/will never get over e.g Great Khali, Mark Henry, Tensai.



Henry has been an absolute treat to watch since his Hall of Pain gimmick started and has,finally, been booked to his strengths, which is just being a big mean bastard! To say he isn't over now is absurd! You just need to watch that retirement segment with Cena or the pop his return at the start of the year got to prove that fans actually give a shit about him nowadays, he gets a reaction. If this were say 3/4 years ago then i would have probably agreed with you!

He does need to stop breaking himself so often though!
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby The Warlord » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:26 pm

I saw all that and I still see him as Mark Henry the nobody for the last 18 years infact I can't believe he's been around 18 years :o I've never liked him he's bores me when he opens his mouth, his matches are always the same the only thing I ever think he was good at was Sexual Chocolate now that was pretty good :lol:
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Haldamir319 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:39 pm

Tensai was great in Japan as Giant Bernard. Some guys just have to be booked in specific ways to get the most out of them.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Bearstock » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:56 pm

A bit like Brie Bella, Henry has improved but as the saying goes you can't polish a turd.


I see the sentiment behind cutting PPV numbers and it sounded a fair idea when TNA announced it.

In practice though it's not helped TNA at all seemingly. Juts made one episode of Impact a month scrape a a 2 rating or summat.

Cut some of them for sure as 13 is way too many. Elimination Chamber as the example.

Elimination Chamber should be a rare occurrence every 2/3 years only when storyline calls for it. 2 in one night every year often with some sub par competitors just waters the concept down and results in normal matches with a couple of spots.

Also it's in February. Using several guys.

They could conceivably scrap the PPV that month with a heavy focus on the Road To Wrestlemania including an actual Raw Supershow where any title changes or big twists in storyline can occur.

Extreme Rules as the Wrestlemania fallout PPV is fine and if booked right the Extreme Rules concept is open enough to be fresh annually.

The midsummer PPV is traditionally shit. Fully Loaded, Capital Punishment, Payback whatever name you wanna give it.

Stick with the July PPV but bring back the King Of The Ring tournament and have the MITB match at Wrestlemania.

Summerslam obviously stays.

Move Night Of Champions to mid October in place of Hell In A Cell. No need for a September or 2 PPVs in October.

Survivor Series stays but has the big elimination match as the key focus and main event.

Keep the end of year PPV for Survivor Series fallout and traditionally use that fallout ready for the Royal Rumble and resulting Wrestlemania.

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:34 pm

Good call on the idea of rotating the sub-booking team to stop things getting stale. I watched a documentary on the Memphis/Mid-South territory a few weeks ago and at the height of their success part of it was down to how Jerry Jarrett and Jerry Lawler would take blocks of 6 months each to book the territory.


Haven't seen this week's RAW yet and am weeks and weeks behind on TNA. I haven't been watching ROH TV either, but I have seen all the matches that will be on it anyway from the Montreal and New York shows last month. Anyone who's a fan of great tag team wrestling definitely check out the Young Bucks vs Forever Hooligans and American Wolves vs ReDRagon matches when they air. Both are definitely going to be in my top matches of the year. The gimmick they've brought Eddie Kingston and Homicide back with is great too. ROH have had a problem in the past of having big gaps between major storylines (i.e. nothing interesting for ages after the CZW war), so setting up this honour vs insanity angle so soon after the SCUM storyline is good for them.

Speaking of CZW I watched Tangled Web last night, and surprisingly it was one of the best shows of the year so far.
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