Trivial Grumblings

Put the world to rights here (off-topic discussion)
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JrHunter
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby JrHunter » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:13 pm

I missed a It's always sunny in Philadelphia pub quiz tonight T_T
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Danroush » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:05 am

Do contactless payments involve typing your PIN on a machine or are they literally swipe and go? Because that seems pretty horrendous fraud wise, USA has tonnes of fraud issues due to no chip and PIN
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby De Stijl » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:34 am

Wave it in front of the machine and go.
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby peypea » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:48 am

I was told that there's a limit on how much you can spend in one transaction, something small like £20? But I honestly don't know :P
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Bisset » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:50 am

JrHunter wrote:I missed a It's always sunny in Philadelphia pub quiz tonight T_T


Jesus it's too early, I read that as "I missed a paedophilia pub quiz tonight"
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Jobdone » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:33 am

JrHunter wrote:I missed a It's always sunny in Philadelphia pub quiz tonight T_T


That sounds amazing.

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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Johnny Tightlips » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:41 am

Danroush wrote:Do contactless payments involve typing your PIN on a machine or are they literally swipe and go? Because that seems pretty horrendous fraud wise, USA has tonnes of fraud issues due to no chip and PIN


As said before, wave and go. There is a limit of £20 per transaction, and you're also supposed to randomly be asked to input your PIN every few times to make sure its still you using the card. Having said that, between using it at the Post Office and Co-op next to my offices, I must have used it close to 100 times and not once have I been asked to input my PIN :lol:

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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Applecore » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:41 am

Had a good 9 hours of sleep last night but now I feel like I could quite happily go back to bed.
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Tet » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:37 pm

Danroush wrote:Because that seems pretty horrendous fraud wise, USA has tonnes of fraud issues due to no chip and PIN

The USA has higher card fraud than we do, but to blame that on a lack of chip and pin is stretching it a bit. There are many other factors that contribute to that. While it's true that chip and pin does reduce some types of fraud, the main benefit is that it shifts liability away from the banks. That's why it was introduced. It literally doesn't have a single benefit for the consumer, only downsides. That's why I refuse to have one.

Source: I was working in the credit card industry at the time C&P was introduced.
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Jobdone
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Jobdone » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:41 pm

Haven't really looked into chip and pin, just kinda accepted it.

What are the downsides?
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Applecore » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:25 pm

Only one I can think of is forgetting your pin?
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby CrappyMike » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:29 pm

The alternative at work is we need a signature, and I can assure you that's way less secure because as much as you can try to reinforce to people that its essential that the card is signed and the signatures match, a lot of staff won't check, or will allow payment when the card is not signed. I don't see any obvious downsides to chip and pin,it definitely doesnt make fraud any easier.

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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby thehairyone » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:05 pm

Tet wrote:
Danroush wrote:Because that seems pretty horrendous fraud wise, USA has tonnes of fraud issues due to no chip and PIN

The USA has higher card fraud than we do, but to blame that on a lack of chip and pin is stretching it a bit. There are many other factors that contribute to that. While it's true that chip and pin does reduce some types of fraud, the main benefit is that it shifts liability away from the banks. That's why it was introduced. It literally doesn't have a single benefit for the consumer, only downsides. That's why I refuse to have one.

Source: I was working in the credit card industry at the time C&P was introduced.


Upside: I am unable to sign, consistantly, the same thing time after time. After a couple of years getting refused because the signatures didn't match (not frequent, but it did happen) I now have no issue due to being chip and PIN.

Secondary upsides: Watching tourists try to remember their pin for the first time in years...

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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby Tet » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:22 pm

CrappyMike wrote:as much as you can try to reinforce to people that its essential that the card is signed and the signatures match, a lot of staff won't check, or will allow payment when the card is not signed.

Then the merchant is liable, and deservedly so. Signatures are there for authentication purposes and if they haven't trained their staff well enough to understand that, then I have no sympathy.

I wish more people understood non-repudiation. With chip and PIN, if a retailer claims I've made a payment, I have literally no way to challenge that. Further, the bank will side with the merchant. After all, "but a valid PIN was entered" is hard to argue with. Despite the fact that there are several attacks that make it possible for someone to do so. With a signature, I can ask the bank to compare the signature from the transaction with the copy of my signature that they have on file. Unless someone is extremely skilled at forging a signature, that's almost always sufficient to have the transaction reversed.
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Re: Trivial Grumblings

Postby peypea » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:39 pm

It's not snowing. I don't want to go to work tomorrow.
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