Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Put the world to rights here (off-topic discussion)
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Danroush
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Danroush » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:39 pm

Tet wrote:
Danroush wrote:I don't like Hamilton but I'm confused as to what he did wrong in that race? He even admitted Nico was going faster and could've overtaken him in the post race interview

So let him past. Even if Brawn had said to maintain positions, Hamilton could easily have replied "You know what, it's my best friend, it's for a podium position, he's clearly quicker than I am, I'll let him past and we'll still finish 3rd and 4th, without any risk to the team. If I'm as good a driver as I think I am, it won't make a difference to the championship." But he didn't do that. I actually support team orders. But not this early in the season, particularly when it's far from proven that Hamilton will be the quicker of the two in the long run. Giving him #1 status this early in the season leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Particularly as I've heard from others that it's contractually guaranteed.


Wait, if you agree that team orders this early in the season is a bad idea then why did you speak so strongly against Vettel for ignoring them? They may not have been lapping as differently as Rosberg and Hamilton, but they were on different strategies, with Vettel lapping faster on the softer tyres, so it's understandable he wouldn't want to hold back the same as Rosberg. Yes he disobeyed the team but we all heard how close Rosberg was to doing the same, he managed to control his wishes better than Vettel but it doesn't make Vettel a villain to want to race for a win when it was easily in his grasp.
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Danroush » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:48 pm

Also to Andy, I would hardly call disobeying a team order cheating, intentionally crashing into another car like Schumi in '97 (and possibly/probably in '94) is cheating, racing your team mate when the team tells you not to isn't in the same league


Also I know Bernie is hardly a good source but just noting that he's also brought up mention that 2 races in is a ridiculous time for team orders. I really think people are being quite fickle considering a couple of years ago everyone was raving about how bad team orders are e.g. Massa giving alonso the lead in Germany when he'd earnt the win, or Schumi and Barichello back in 2002, yet now just because they're officially legal people act like that makes them ethically right?
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Noodle » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:29 pm

I was disappointed about Nico obeying his team orders, I was disappointed that Mark felt he shouldn't have had to race for his victory (he had durable tyres. Seb would have burnt his tyres out trying to race away and he'd have been easy pickings and they'd still have both finished first and second, especially with the Mercedes boys caught up in Lewis's fuelling fuck up), and I was disappointed with Seb's reaction. To say he didn't want to pass, didn't mean to pass and he misunderstood the team orders, but deciding not to give Mark his lead back and pretending to be sorry? Fuck off. It was actually a really interesting race before all of that.
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Danroush » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:07 am

Noodle wrote:I was disappointed about Nico obeying his team orders, I was disappointed that Mark felt he shouldn't have had to race for his victory (he had durable tyres. Seb would have burnt his tyres out trying to race away and he'd have been easy pickings and they'd still have both finished first and second, especially with the Mercedes boys caught up in Lewis's fuelling fuck up), and I was disappointed with Seb's reaction. To say he didn't want to pass, didn't mean to pass and he misunderstood the team orders, but deciding not to give Mark his lead back and pretending to be sorry? Fuck off. It was actually a really interesting race before all of that.



I think you misunderstood what he said. He said he understood what they said but the words didn't get through to him because he wasn't thinking straight, for which he apologised. He said at the time of interviewing he wish he hadn't have gone past, not that at the time of racing that he didn't want to. He wasn't claiming in any way that he believed he was allowed to go for the win, he was saying he acted with red mist rather than calm and rationally like he should've. He still behaved wrongly, but he definitely admitted doing so, that is undebatable.
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Noodle » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:48 am

I don't believe him. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact he challenged for the lead and the win, but I don't like how the whole thing was handled afterwards. I just don't believe that he regrets doing it, and why should he? The whole bullshit affair has killed a fair amount of my interest.

But then I contribute nothing to the upkeep of the F1 organisation, so what business do I have commenting on the running of it?
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Beardy » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:13 am

I like F1... but this did make me laugh:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/for ... 3032663802

:lol:

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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Andy Hall » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:55 am

So you lot are all approving disobeying your boss, well go to work and disobey yours and see how quickly you lose it, this is no different, what the boss says goes, you work for them, not the other way around, it's as simple as that
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Jim » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:59 am

Andy Hall wrote:So you lot are all approving disobeying your boss, well go to work and disobey yours and see how quickly you lose it, this is no different, what the boss says goes, you work for them, not the other way around, it's as simple as that


I do it all the time, but I tell him first. "This is a shite idea. Instead, I'mm a do this...".
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Beezerk » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:08 am

Not an F1 or motorsport fan to be honest however I did a night rally driving thing in Teesside the other weekend, it was fucking awesome. Two cars, one was a little kart/buggy type thing which did 0-60 in 3 seconds, I'm not ashamed to say I absolutely shit myself in that thing, still did a decent time though, 4th fastest out of 40 people IIRC.
Then did a Subaru Impreza rally car type thing, much more at home in this one and it was great to floor the fucker coming out of corners, the power under the bonnet was unreal. I think I was 5th fastest in that one.
Couldn't be @rsed to wait for the final event which was the buggy things again but on a bigger track so I never saw my final leaderboard position.

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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Andy Hall » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:17 am

siliconfury wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:So you lot are all approving disobeying your boss, well go to work and disobey yours and see how quickly you lose it, this is no different, what the boss says goes, you work for them, not the other way around, it's as simple as that


I do it all the time, but I tell him first. "This is a shite idea. Instead, I'mm a do this...".


But only if he approves it first, this is nothing to do with I like this driver or this driver I'm actually a Jenson Button and McClaren fan, this is all to do with doing as you're told, nothing more, nothing less, Vettel blatantly disobeyed his boss and what his team wanted, even his engineer told him to stop he did what he wanted like he was above the team, simple as that and it's not just me thinking it, read the F1 forums, read the sports news papers, the evidence and the wires from the team bosses are all there, end of the day believe what you want, but I believe the evidence
Owen wrote:I must admit that even for you Andy, wanting a paddling pool to see people in bikinis is pretty creepy. :lol:

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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Tet » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:49 am

Beezerk wrote:a little kart/buggy type thing which did 0-60 in 3 seconds

Slow! Sorry, couldn't resist :-)
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Noodle » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:15 pm

This isn't a regular job, Andy. This is motorsport. It makes itself profitable by being exciting. Kerbing that excitement, especially at the sharp end harms its reputation and casual interest in the sport.
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Andy Hall » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:25 pm

Noodle wrote:This isn't a regular job, Andy. This is motorsport. It makes itself profitable by being exciting. Kerbing that excitement, especially at the sharp end harms its reputation and casual interest in the sport.


I agree, but i'm not arguing that fact, I hate team orders i'm arguing over the actions of the driver, I hate it, but he did disobey orders, and the only reason to disobey orders is if that order is illegal or dangerous, Vettel had no excuse to disobey that order other than his ego

I want the guys to race, but this is not what we are discussing :?
Owen wrote:I must admit that even for you Andy, wanting a paddling pool to see people in bikinis is pretty creepy. :lol:

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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Noodle » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:30 pm

I do understand what you're saying, but...

Motorsport is inherently dangerous. If they were driving for different teams, everyone would be raving about how daring and exciting the pass was. It was always going to be a dangerous and risky pass. It's only the team having kittens because they were both on the same team. Nothing was done illegally or any more dangerously than any other racing maneuver.
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Re: Motorsport Enthusiasts Corner

Postby Andy Hall » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:37 pm

No that is complete tosh, Webber had turned his engine down, the 2 of them were told to hold station and turn the engines down, it's all over the press, it was said by the team boss live on air after the race had finished aswell, Vettel ignored that order, believe that if you want but I believe the evidence presented and it's all over the press, Vettel wouldn't have been that close of he had followed orders, Webber was quicker than he was throughout the race and his ego wouldn't allow that, the guy is an arsehole plain and simple
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