movies

Put the world to rights here (off-topic discussion)
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onona
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Re: movies

Postby onona » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:30 am

Beardy wrote:The reason nothing's been said is that I'm not in denial. People download stuff illegally now, it happens and there's nothing you or I can do to stop it and removing throw-away comments like that is entirely pointless... not to mention that I'd end up spending all of my time removing references to people listening to albums that haven't been released yet etc, something that I quite frankly don't have the time (or the inclination) to do since I work full-time and I'm currently considering taking on an OU course as well.

In case you hadn't noticed, there is an 'available albums thread' on here, that was set up to stop people posting links to illegally download albums from on here - the removal of which was taking up a lot of my time, not to mention that the links were often active for a fair time before they were seen by myself or someone else from the mod team at the time and removed so there's now a policy whereby any chatter about that kind of stuff is fine as long as no actual links are posted. It's a realistic policy and it works.


I'm really disappointed to read this. I realise you're busy (I run a web forum too so I know how hard it can be to make time for moderating stuff), but it's genuinely sad to see this kind of defeatist acceptance of what amounts to selfish, freeloading behaviour. I think a music site like this is missing an opportunity to set an example when it comes to respecting those who create the art we love, whether it's music, films, or any other creative medium.

By accepting it, you're indirectly endorsing it.

I think I'll just avoid this thread, because it's likely to raise my blood pressure if I see any more people mentioning or trying to justify their freeloading of the work of my peers working in film around the world.

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Beardy
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Re: movies

Postby Beardy » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:32 am

onona wrote:
Beardy wrote:...and you won't lose it, at least until it becomes the norm to have fucking huge TV screens in your house ;)
There's a good argument for saying the whole 'Hollywood' film industry has done more harm to independent cinema than a tiny percentage of people illegally streaming huge multi-million dollar films will ever do anyway.


Tell that to my friends all over the world who are out of work because of studio cutbacks due to decreasing budgets, blamed on reduced ticket sales and illegal downloading.

...and paying 'stars' vast amounts of money to headline shit films with loads of flashy effects and no substance has nothing to do with that? I barely go to the cinema anymore (and it's not because I illegally download films, because I don't), it's because I'm sick of shit rehashes of films I love and CGI monstrosities with no plot to speak of! If something gets released that grabs my attention I'll make the effort, because I don't have a fucking giant TV screen.. but I haven't been to see a film since Iron Sky came out and the next one I'm looking forward to is probably Machete Kills. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I'd rather go to an indie cinema and see a classic film on the big screen than see most new ones...

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Andy Hall
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Re: movies

Postby Andy Hall » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:46 am

Funny I tend to go to see films for entertainment, not to have my life changed :lol:

And you've named 2 if the most trashy films you could name, so I'm really not shocked you're jaded if that's what you class as good cinema
Owen wrote:I must admit that even for you Andy, wanting a paddling pool to see people in bikinis is pretty creepy. :lol:

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Beardy
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Re: movies

Postby Beardy » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:55 am

If you're replying to me Andy then you've put 2 and 2 together and made about 75! I watch films for entertainment value too, my point is that some flashy bollocks with no storyline and characters I couldn't give 2 shits about like, say, Transformers isn't entertaining to me in the slightest whereas a smart film with engaging characters like Pan's Labyrinth (which also has its fair share of CGI etc, but used much more subtly to help tell a story) I can watch time and again.

Oh, and the irony of on the one hand saying you watch films for entertainment value and not because you want to have your life changed and then deriding 'trashy' films.. you really couldn't make it up! :lol: :lol:

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Re: movies

Postby Noodle » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:03 am

I take issue to being accused of endorsing illegal downloading of films. I haven't encouraged or discouraged it, and I haven't taken much notice of the available albums thread. In fact I haven't been to the cinema for years, and haven't downloaded or bought a DVD for about the same. If I watch something, it's because it's on telly.

We remove any links to any downloads and hand out a substantial warning telling them not to do it again or we will get very cross, but we're not their mummies and can hardly dictate what they do with their music or film habits.
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Re: movies

Postby Andy Hall » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:10 am

Beardy wrote:If you're replying to me Andy then you've put 2 and 2 together and made about 75! I watch films for entertainment value too, my point is that some flashy bollocks with no storyline and characters I couldn't give 2 shits about like, say, Transformers isn't entertaining to me in the slightest whereas a smart film with engaging characters like Pan's Labyrinth (which also has its fair share of CGI etc, but used much more subtly to help tell a story) I can watch time and again.

Oh, and the irony of on the one hand saying you watch films for entertainment value and not because you want to have your life changed and then deriding 'trashy' films.. you really couldn't make it up! :lol: :lol:


This is where the whole personal taste thing comes in again, because I didn't enjoy Pan's Labyrinth st all, I didn't get to the end of it to be honest, yet I find Transformers perfect popcorn escapism made for cinema, second one was crappy mind you but the other 2 were completely epic and technically superb from am fx standpoint
Last edited by Andy Hall on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Owen wrote:I must admit that even for you Andy, wanting a paddling pool to see people in bikinis is pretty creepy. :lol:

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Re: movies

Postby Jobdone » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:40 am

onona wrote:The business model shouldn't have to change just because some people feel they can take whatever the hell they like.


And yet many other have. Music has changed to mp3s and itunes and the such. GAmes have mainly moved to downloading and relying on sales and the such (Again, see steam.)

It's not hard to go to your local cinema to watch one of the latest films [sic]they download films because they're cheapskates.


Yes, it is hard. For me it's over 8 quid of travel, and then another 7 quid or more to see the thing. That's not even talking about whatever snacks or shit the place is selling.

Call me a cheapskate, but dropping 15 quid or more on about 2 hours of entertainment is just not reasonable anymore.



which isn't a very long wait these days.


Big films recently:
Avengers: cinema release 11th april, home media september 25th
Batman Dark Knight Rises: cinema release july 16th, home media late november.
Inception: cinema release july 8th, home media december 10th

About half a year each. For no fucking reason.

Sadly, that's how people increasingly think about all creative pursuits. Music, films, games - it's just a big freeloading free-for-all for people who have zero respect for the people who made the stuff. This has nothing to do with business models and everything to do with greed and entitlement.


Other media types have adapted and are learning. Massive DRM on games is being toned back because it doesn't effect the pirates, it affects the legal buyers. Same with music. People will pay for things they think are worth paying for.

People DON'T download because things are difficult to get.


I don't want to wait for a movie. I want to see it when I want to see it. For further reference, see Netflix.


I understand you're annoyed because it's your line of work, but the world is changing. The movie industry needs to change with it. Maybe stop paying big name stars tens of millions to headline, go find new people. Maybe stop making faceless uninteresting pieces of shit that people don't want to see. Make movies accessible easily on release, for a reasonable fucking price, and maybe people will buy them.

Yes, when it comes down to it, pirating it illegal. But people fucking do it. Same as every other law that eventually becomes soft law that people don't like to pay attention to.

You either adapt to how the world is changing, or you fucking shut down like HMV or some bollocks.
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Re: movies

Postby Andy Hall » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:03 am

For the record, writing fuck every sentence doesn't make your actions or your reasons any more right, and comments like I want it when I want it make you sound like a child, welcome to the world, we can't always get what we want, and who are you to tell people what a good film is ?
Owen wrote:I must admit that even for you Andy, wanting a paddling pool to see people in bikinis is pretty creepy. :lol:

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Re: movies

Postby Beardy » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:28 am

Andy Hall wrote:For the record, writing fuck every sentence doesn't make your actions or your reasons any more right, and comments like I want it when I want it make you sound like a child, welcome to the world, we can't always get what we want, and who are you to tell people what a good film is ?


Andy Hall wrote:Funny I tend to go to see films for entertainment, not to have my life changed :lol:

And you've named 2 if the most trashy films you could name, so I'm really not shocked you're jaded if that's what you class as good cinema

Like I said before, you really couldn't make it up :lol: :lol:

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Luke_X
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Re: movies

Postby Luke_X » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:25 am

Cinema is meant to be an experience. The big screen, loud speakers and the general atmosphere. You lose that in a download. I'd happily pay the money at the cinema and remember that experience of watching a film.

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Re: movies

Postby angel_of_death » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:25 am

There are some good points in here about the movie industry adapting. Yes, times are changing and I think people would like to stream, and I think services like Netflix would benefit from having current theatrical releases available, for a price.
I don't think that would kill the cinema, because people do still enjoy the experience. Cineworld have the right idea, £15 a month for as many films as you like. Pre-baby I was going to the cinema between 4 and 8 times a week, now we still manage about 4 a month. We subscribe to Netflix and Lovefilm (for different reasons) and we buy far too many dvds/blu-rays. Cineworld have recently started advertising that they'll show Stand Up comedy shows, and they stream live shows everyno and then. Good way to diversify.
Other cinemas could follow suit and offer people a way of seeing films at a more affordable price, if it wasn't for the unlimited card I would probably have to wait for DVD releases...and I would spend a fortune!
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Re: movies

Postby Illwish » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:59 am

onona wrote:The business model shouldn't have to change just because some people feel they can take whatever the hell they like.
Yes it should, businesses should be driven by what customers want.

That's not the point though, there's a huge customer base out there that would pay for low price downloads/streaming (this isn't grand speculation, every time a business has done something forward thinking like this in recent memory, it's been a big success.) There are always going to be people who won't pay for anything that they can get for free, but the reality is that people like paying for things they consume. Look especially at 'pay what you want' downloads for evidence or the studies that show that illegal music downloaders also spend much more of their disposable income on music than people who don't. But at the moment, there are a large set of consumers who literally can't legally enjoy films the way they'd want to.

onona wrote:Tell that to my friends all over the world who are out of work because of studio cutbacks due to decreasing budgets, blamed on reduced ticket sales and illegal downloading.
This is just bullshit. While your friends might well be out of work, it's not because of reduced ticket sales. Ticket sales are up year on year. DVD/Blu Ray sales are up year on year. Much more likely that the companies want bigger profit margins and do so by sacking staff and then in a beautiful PR move, get the disgruntled employees to believe that it's the fault of the consumer, not the company.

My google skills aren't strong enough to find the more contemporary article I'm getting this from but this is something:
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/boom ... 04224.html

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Re: movies

Postby Jobdone » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:09 am

Illwish wrote:That's not the point though, there's a huge customer base out there that would pay for low price downloads/streaming (this isn't grand speculation, every time a business has done something forward thinking like this in recent memory, it's been a big success.)


Biggest recent one I remember is probably Louis CK, who released his stand up on his website for a minimum of 5 dollars, and you can pay extra if you want.

Made a few million within a month.

Also the movie Ink, which they released themselves onto bittorrent sites for promotion, and were repayed with way higher DVD and bluray sales.
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Re: movies

Postby Andy Hall » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:41 pm

I can't agree with Gandalf's comment about no good films the past 30 years and the CGI comments aswell, they still make great films with no CGI like the Bourne films, Heat, Ronin, revenly a great film like Justice, if you're not in to films though the likelyhood is you won't know these types of film exist, many go straight to DVD in the UK but get relases in the US, we're a lot smaller country and there's only so many screens I suppose
Owen wrote:I must admit that even for you Andy, wanting a paddling pool to see people in bikinis is pretty creepy. :lol:

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Re: movies

Postby Andy Hall » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:44 pm

Beardy wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:For the record, writing fuck every sentence doesn't make your actions or your reasons any more right, and comments like I want it when I want it make you sound like a child, welcome to the world, we can't always get what we want, and who are you to tell people what a good film is ?


Andy Hall wrote:Funny I tend to go to see films for entertainment, not to have my life changed :lol:

And you've named 2 if the most trashy films you could name, so I'm really not shocked you're jaded if that's what you class as good cinema

Like I said before, you really couldn't make it up :lol: :lol:


Again you just don't get it, we're talking about cinema, not independent film, bit cinema :rolleyes:

And those 2 films were made to be b movie and trashy, that was the syle they were going for
Owen wrote:I must admit that even for you Andy, wanting a paddling pool to see people in bikinis is pretty creepy. :lol: