The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)

Put the world to rights here (off-topic discussion)

How will you vote in the 2017 UK General Election?

Conservative
9
20%
Labour
21
46%
Liberal Democrat
10
22%
SNP
1
2%
UKIP
2
4%
Green
1
2%
Other
1
2%
Won't Vote
1
2%
 
Total votes: 46

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Smerphy
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The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)

Postby Smerphy » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:48 am

With the vote now only 2 months away, the Yes and No camps are neck and neck, with both taking almost 50/50 in most recent polls (with undecided's excluded, of course).

English people, feel free to bitch about how yae dinnae need us, while at the same time asking us to think about how we'll be breaking up the "family", and we'll tell you how much we dinnae need YE since we're such a powerful nation (Did you know that we're the world's third largest salmon producer? We're a big fuckin deal!)
Last edited by Smerphy on Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:28 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Womble » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:52 am

Right, tired from work so I'll give it in a vague summary of the main reasons for why I'll be voting Yes.

- Our politics are notably different, we're more left wing than the rest of the UK. The Scots haven't voted Tory en mass since the 60s.
- The UK is going a bad way, education cuts, spying and internet restrictions, cutting public services the sentiment up here is "Why wait for a fix that will never come, when we could do it ourselves?"
- It would pave-way for greater democracy through an adoption of a PR system that would allow new parties to grow
-I don't agree with the majority of the UK's foreign policy actions, an independent Scotland will have no stake in intervening and the idea now is to have a self-defence force rather than an army.
- The UK is ruled by Westminster for Westminster, simple as.

HOWEVER, I am aware that Independence is by no means perfect. Issues still remain:

- The currency union is a bizarre idea, and we'll be stuck on the pound. The majority of us wants to create a new currency.
- It won't be the socialist paradise many claim, a neo-liberal economic policy has been outlined for post-independence
- Scotland's economy is a branch economy, many sectors (especially oil) rely on foreign firms operating here
- If it happens then I'll have to live in a country where every city will have a giant gold fucking Alex Salmond statue.


tl;dr - Independence for me is about having our own say for our own future. Not out of a notion that everything will be magically fixed.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Skippy » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:18 am

If I was Scottish, I'd say vote yes. Britain is in a bad way, and you can't get a worse Government than the one we have now.

As I'm Welsh, I urge you all to vote no. Unless you take us with you.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jobdone » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:17 am

I say yes, because either it works and that's cool, or it's a fucking train wreck and will be hilarious.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jim » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:20 am

My main problem is the majority of people are misinformed of what they're being asked to vote for.

My mum is voting "No" because she won't get the following questions answered:

Much will taxes be?
Will they lose the NHS?
What happens to the BBC?
Will education still be free?

And many more.

The answer to all of these is "You can vote for it by voting YES".

The majority of people don't realise they're voting for the opportunity to vote for things in future that is more relevant to their own country, independent of Westminster. They're more focussed on short term, immediate changes rather than the ability to become an independent state.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby metalsam » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:15 am

Jobdone wrote:I say yes, because either it works and that's cool, or it's a fucking train wreck and will be hilarious.


Pretty much this. If they want to be independent, then I'm not bothered, as long as Scotland pays the costs of doing so and takes their share of national debt.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Haldamir319 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:02 am

The main downside to the rest of the UK is that the Conservatives would be massively stronger after Scotland leaves as their proportion of the vote would go up (they usually get naff all votes north of the border).
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby metalsam » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:34 am

Haldamir319 wrote:The main downside to the rest of the UK is that the Conservatives would be massively stronger after Scotland leaves as their proportion of the vote would go up (they usually get naff all votes north of the border).


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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:02 am

Womble wrote:- If it happens then I'll have to live in a country where every city will have a giant gold fucking Alex Salmond statue.


Simple solution to this. Adopt the Irish presidential democracy model and vote for Sean Connery to be your first head of state and build statues of him instead.


What intrigues me most is the idea of me potentially being entitled to a Scottish passport thanks to family connections...
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Turbo » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:01 am

I vote yes because I feel Scotland can make it work. I can't say I agree with the dirty little tricks from the English side of the border with the issue surrounding the £ and other things or Salmond's main motivation is for a better Scotland. Salmond is about Salmond. Get his name in the history books and fuck everything else. Just my impression on the man.



Welsh independence next I hope. Don't care if Pot Noodles become more expensive.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Turbo » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:56 am

I see no problem with expelling all those Gaelic fuckers to live with their bro's across the Irish sea. I have a serious problem with the fact that England only has three points on their compasses. North East and South.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby CrappyMike » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:42 pm

If alex salmond wanted independence because it was the right thing for the country, i would consider voting yes. However, he wants independence to satisfy his own ego, and doesnt give a shit what happens afterwards. the first sign of things going wrong he'll step down, very early on and then it looks like someone elses fault. the man is a slimy bastard and i cant see myself ever voting in his favour. show me some real benefits, some real reasons to change things and i'll change my mind. as i see it, the yes campaign are the ones with all the work to do so while the no campaign hasnt been great either, they have nothing to convince me of.

and as i've mentioned before on here one of the most common things to hear from yes voters is that we wont have a government we didnt vote for, it absolutely doesnt work that way.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby someone else » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:42 pm

gandalf the red wrote:Wales isn't even a country. :P

I remember seeing "FREE WALES" on a motorway bridge. And some one had written "with every gallon of four star" next to it. :lol:


The Welsh independence movement set off a couple of bombs in Chester, and blew a hole in a pipeline in the next village to me (Helsby)
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Womble » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:46 pm

gandalf the red wrote:You've got to remember why the union happened in the first place. Scotland was bankrupt and England virtually bought it. I can see the same thing happening again very soon.


The Darien Scheme and the resulting failed Panama colonies were such a disaster because Scotland lost a a literal quarter of its wealth. With how broad modern economies are, it's near impossible to lose so much wealth like with the Darien Scheme - save war and natural disasters

gandalf the red wrote:"We'll use the Pound" - no you won't, you can call it the pound but it won't be Sterling


Except we will. There's nothing stopping one nation using another's currency. It's not a perfect solution, and it's very likely that we'll go onto create our own eventually.

gandalf the red wrote:"We'll be in Europe" - no you won't, not for a very long time


18 months.

gandalf the red wrote:"We'll have the BBC" - no you won't


The plan isn't to somehow 'keep' the BBC but to create a Scottish Broadcasting Service based off of the BBC.

gandalf the red wrote:"We'll have the shipyards" - good luck when the orders go to English shipyards instead


I've literally heard no one talk about shipyards. Thatcher basically killed them all anyway.

gandalf the red wrote:"We'll have the NHS" - no you won't


See the BBC answer.

gandalf the red wrote:"We'll have free prescriptions" - how are you going to pay for it

gandalf the red wrote:"We'll have free universities" - how are you going to pay for it


There are plenty of other small European nations that afford it. Scotland contributes more GDP in proportion to the population of the UK than anyone else, yet right now we actually get less back proportionally than we contribute. We technically subsidise the rest of the country.

gandalf the red wrote:"We've still got the Oil" - not owned by Scotland


The oil fields are. The firms aren't Scottish, but Scotland profits massively from knock-on effects. See the entire city of Aberdeen.

Plus, there's more oil off of the West Coast which has had development blocked by the MoD.

gandalf the red wrote:"We've still got the Whisky" - mostly not owned by Scotland


Yet it still provides the economy with £4bn profit a year and 35,000 jobs.

gandalf the red wrote:"We've still got IRN BRU" - you can keep it


Your loss dude.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Turbo » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:57 pm

Am I the only person that see's losing the beeb a very minor thing. Honestly, all they show is shit. Granted, its better than ITV. Would you still need to pay TV licencing if you cannot pick up the BBC? If not, surely that's a plus point.

I think the only thing that would concern me the greatest out of all of these points is the total uncertainty of health care.