The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)

Put the world to rights here (off-topic discussion)

How will you vote in the 2019 UK General Election?

Conservative
1
6%
Labour
7
41%
Liberal Democrat
4
24%
SNP
0
No votes
Brexit
1
6%
Green
2
12%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
0
No votes
Won't Vote
2
12%
 
Total votes: 17

Jage
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jage » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:49 pm

It would be really weird if Northern Ireland became independent. I don't see why it would stop Sinn Fein types wanting to join Ireland or others not wanting to, although I'd like to think that discrimination against Protestants in ROI might have declined by now. Anyway, I still don't understand whether the EU will let new states that join keep their old currency. If they don't then quite a big part of the point in being independent seems to be gone really. If part of the UK did become independent, then I think they should try and model some of the cultural / constitutional stuff more on America than the UK / Northern Europe style stuff. I mean, for example, be more in favour of full on free speech than political correctness and try and have masculinity and being middle class not be two totally mutually exclusive things, so people don't end up being proud of being retarded/ chavvy.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:45 am

Surprisingly discrimination against prods in the south never really existed. You would think given the clause in the 1937 constitution giving special mention to the catholic church and their hand in running state schools there would be, but as they comprised most of the middle class prior to partition they could mostly afford to send their children to private Church Of Ireland (Anglican) schools. There was never widespread job discrimination like there was in the north and until the 1960's at least protestants were actually over-represented in the civil service which was about the only secure job in those days. The discrimination actually seems to have gone the other way in border towns of Cavan and Monaghan. It's worth noting as well for all the pro-catholic rhetoric of the 1937 constitution the first president created by it, Douglas Hyde, was a protestant.

There probably were individual cases but never any systemic discrimination and claims to the contrary from Unionists are more or less an attempt to smokescreen the civil rights abuses they committed between 1920 and 1972. They try using statistics of falling numbers of protestants in the south (I think 10 or 11% before 1920 to 5% now) as evidence of some sort of secret intimidation campaign but theyre completely ignoring the facts. Like for one thing since the 1870's the British government had been convincing landowners to sell to their tenants for cheap as reparations for the "famine" of the 1850's and by the time of the civil war of 1921-1922 most were either fleeing or selling up completely and moving to their other estates in England. Then factor un that in Ireland as a whole emigration was higher than population growth til the early 90's and the remains of the pre-partition protestant middle class were the ones most able to afford to move to England, America or Australia. Despite the high emigration and infant mortality rates as well there's also the old stereotype but completely true fact protestants have fewer children. And as the protestant community got smaller intermarriage rates grew. Unlike most protestant churches the catholic churches the catholic church won't allow members to marry people of other denominations so typically in mixed marriages in Ireland the protestant party converts and any children subsequently are baptized as Catholics.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jage » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:06 am

reply later

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Gandalf the Red » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:55 pm

Why are people still voting in this? It's over. :lol:
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jobdone » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:09 pm

NOTHING IS OVER. NOTHING. YOU DON'T JUST CLOSE THE THREAD.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Gandalf the Red » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:16 pm

The discussion is still valid. I'm just wondering why there has been more votes in the poll since the actual vote. :lol:
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:08 pm

In fairness there is probably a few wheezy OAPs who sat down for a rest on the way to the polling station and still haven't made it there
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jage » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:28 pm

do English people who move to Ireland get shit then?

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:11 pm

Only when they take ages in the queue at my local post office :P


For the short answer, no. Most Irish people actually quite like the English. Particularly Mancunians for some reason, Dubliners really really love Coronation Street. The X-Factor and all that trashy Saturday night TV stuff is really popular too. And I'll never understand the phenomenon that is middle class Irish fetishism for the royal family. Last year I was sat behind two south Dublin (read as: posh) lads on the plane talking about getting all this memorabilia from the palace gift shop. Not even as souvenirs for family or anything, for themselves. They weren't even gay either as far as I could tell.

Ireland is like any other country. Provided you don't show up in a tricorn singing Britannia Rule and let your bulldog do a shit in the Garden Of Remembrance people will be wonderful to you. The only people who would be hostile to the English as standard would be people in Connemara (our equivalent of those bits of North Wales where they refuse to speak English) or men over the age of 45 in West Belfast or Derry City. In the latter case it's probably because their last encounter with an English person consisted of being forced to sit naked on an iron radiator or being beaten with a phone book.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Metalchemyst » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:52 am

Matty_the_Emo_Slayer wrote:Last year I was sat behind two south Dublin (read as: posh) lads on the plane talking about getting all this memorabilia from the palace gift shop. Not even as souvenirs for family or anything, for themselves. They weren't even gay either as far as I could tell.
You need to be careful with 'outrageous' stereotyping of gays like that in this forum :D

Years ago I went on an environmental working holiday in Killarney, Kerry and there was one Irish girl who had a bit of a chip-on-the-shoulder attitude against me but the other Irish people were all cool and the Church of Ireland boy had a very English type personality. I was joking with them about Billy Connoly's observation that it is always 'staunch' protestant and 'devout' catholic and never the other way around :)
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Nichrome » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:07 pm

Do you think we might see the Scottish National Liberation Army take some action and perhaps carry out some attacks in England to try and force independence? They are surely experiencing a surge in membership taking into account recent events.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jage » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:12 pm

It would be funny, instead of all of this razmatazz, if England just had an independence movement and dumped the rest of the UK and Overseas Territories, but we can't do that, because that would mean Englishness being a political force or whatever and that would upset the quivering gasping social scientists.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby malicious_bloke » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:08 pm

Jage wrote:It would be funny, instead of all of this razmatazz, if England just had an independence movement and dumped the rest of the UK and Overseas Territories, but we can't do that, because that would mean Englishness being a political force or whatever and that would upset the quivering gasping social scientists.


We can dream.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby WorMzy » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:22 pm

It'd be nice if the rest of the UK voted for independence from London.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jage » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:04 pm

wouldn't that fuck off 30% of the economy though? something like that. I have my views but they're strongly related to economic ideas, mostly left wing ones but mostly old school left with a bit of direct democracy thrown in and it would take an essay to get it all out.