EU Referendum and Afterwards

Put the world to rights here (off-topic discussion)

Will Scotland vote to leave the UK before the General Election of 2020?

Yes
9
53%
No
8
47%
 
Total votes: 17

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fluffymoo
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby fluffymoo » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:10 pm

Gandalf the Red wrote:The way the Europeans are all going "GO NOW" to Britain just shows the contempt they actually have for us. If they really wanted us to stay then they would've tried harder to convince us to stay.


Oh fuck off. If anything it feels as if the votes show how much contempt Britain has for us Europeans. It's not our responsibility to convince you to stay, the people chose for themselves. Ass hats.
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby Gandalf the Red » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:52 pm

fluffymoo wrote:
Gandalf the Red wrote:The way the Europeans are all going "GO NOW" to Britain just shows the contempt they actually have for us. If they really wanted us to stay then they would've tried harder to convince us to stay.


Oh fuck off. If anything it feels as if the votes show how much contempt Britain has for us Europeans. It's not our responsibility to convince you to stay, the people chose for themselves. Ass hats.



I'm glad you said "us Europeans". Kind of illustrates my point.

However I was actually talking about the bureaucrats such as Jean Claude Juncker and his cronies. Not the people in the street. If they wanted us, then there was plenty of opportunities to keep us.

We signed up to a trade agreement, not a European State. And we weren't exactly welcomed when we did eventually join. General De Gaul was particularly anti British entry to "their club".

The whole European membership has been a disaster. Before most people's time, but food mountains, wine lakes, farming quotas, fishing quotas, The Cod War, companies moving production to cheaper East European countries whilst getting massive grants from the EU to do so, stopping us having trade with "our" Commonwealth, light bulbs, bananas, wind turbines, I could go on.

But it's going to take us two years at least to finally get out, that's if they actually let us leave. They could drag their heals and keep us in, just to spite us.

Ironically it's the Scandinavians that are most likely to follow us out. Denmark is already looking at a Danexit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626409
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby kanet666 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:21 pm

fluffymoo wrote:
Gandalf the Red wrote:The way the Europeans are all going "GO NOW" to Britain just shows the contempt they actually have for us. If they really wanted us to stay then they would've tried harder to convince us to stay.


Oh fuck off. If anything it feels as if the votes show how much contempt Britain has for us Europeans. It's not our responsibility to convince you to stay, the people chose for themselves. Ass hats.


Precisely. People voted in what they felt their best interests. Those interests don't align with those of the European Union. In fact the whole "you hate the foreigners" narrative that the Remain camp keep spewing is possibly a large reason why some people voted the way they did.

Also, this whole petition stuff is complete nonsense. The vote happened, the result is the result. You can't keep voting until you get the outcome you want, that's not how democracy works (unless you're the EU if we go off of past referendums).

At the end of the day, what's done is done. The majority of voters spoke, and it's time for everyone to work together and deal with it, just as people would've had to if it was the other way around.
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby Gandalf the Red » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:37 pm

A bit of sense there.

We just need to sit back, see what happens and have a good laugh at the inevitable dirty war that's going to happen at the two major parties. That's going to fascinating.
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby Nantha » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:43 pm

France is going to fuck us, that's for certain. I don't believe Marine Le Pen has enough of an influence there to start the move towards Frexit quite yet.
They will make an example of us to dissuade other countries from leaving. It really could go two-ways at this point. We just have to stick it out and hope the rest of the world opens it's arms, and the rest of europe eventually sees sense and we get some sort of reform.
I'm cautiously hopeful.

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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby Metalchemyst » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:50 pm

Our only friends in Europe right now are all the nationalists :D but I think a lot of ordinary Europeans sympathise with our position. I'm certainly not anti-European. In my early 20s I wanted us to be in a United States of Europe but then I realised that could never be democratic enough. All Brussels had to do was exempt us from the free travel rules or exclude the poorer countries from free travel and we could have stayed on pretty good terms. But they are hooked onto the outdated idea that unless we are all strapped into bed together then Germany will eventually go balistic again.

I'd like a Northwestern European Union - British Isles, Nordics, Benelux, Germany, Austria - similar economies, people and culture. The ex-commie nations are just not ready yet and including them has only provoked Russia.
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby houston4044 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:23 pm

The problem with the EU is that it tries to force countries to conform to one ideal when those joining often have diverse interests themselves. Racing ahead in some utopian dream and taking in nearly everyone who asked meant that often the ideal over-ran reality.

When reality struck and the likes of Russia, the Euro and the migrant crisis landed on (do we call the EU "their" or "our" now?) plates suddenly everyone reverted to their own vested interests and blew a massive whole in the whole "unity" ideal.

I'm sure over time you could slowly coax people to ditch national interest for continental interest but when banging on about it when reality strikes smacks of delusion. Either accept a looser union whereby some continental-wide problems are jointly dealt with and a common market is established or go full on Soviet Union and centralize wholly so there no longer are national vested interests; the middle ground pleases no one and just about muddles on.

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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby Metalchemyst » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:13 pm

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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby Tet » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:08 pm

As one of my American friends observed:

"Stay with me or I'll make your life miserable" is something abusive partners say.

That alone is reason we're better off out. If the other EU nations are indeed going to try and screw us over out of spite for leaving, they're not countries with which I'd want to be in any kind of union to start with.
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby houston4044 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:54 pm

Tet wrote:As one of my American friends observed:

"Stay with me or I'll make your life miserable" is something abusive partners say.



European unity and peace in full force :eyes:

Got a major bollocking by a remain-er after I pointed out to them that Farage can't actually dictate policy since he's not an MP and decision making reverts to the crater of what was the Tory party. Given how Leave distanced themselves from Farage I can't see the Tories now embracing him, they're more likely to scapegoat him if it all hits the fan.

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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby Gandalf the Red » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:53 am

The new Shadow Defence Secretary has an important meeting today. But he's going to miss it as he's still at Glastonbury. :lol:
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby kanet666 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:40 pm

Tet wrote:As one of my American friends observed:

"Stay with me or I'll make your life miserable" is something abusive partners say.

That alone is reason we're better off out. If the other EU nations are indeed going to try and screw us over out of spite for leaving, they're not countries with which I'd want to be in any kind of union to start with.


If you look at the talk since the vote, the individual countries seem to have little problem with being civil for the most part. The eurocrats on the other hand...
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby someone else » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:39 pm

I voted Remain and still stand by it being the right choice - I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed even when the best possible decisions are made, the system shits on both the remain and leave voters equally. This is a revolutionary position, and revolution movements either crash and burn or compromise and fail to live up their promise. I know one major car manufacturer has cancelled investment in the Uk and its local factory will go into a 'managed decline' and its plant in Austria will take new models, and can see others doing the same. Having worked through the last downturn in the construction industry, I know it gets hit very hard and is usually the last to recover. I feel we are at the mercy of the same forces we were before the vote, just now we're in a much weaker position - never having been in the EU is a better position to be in, but 'leaving' is a different proposition when we've been in for 40 years - we're not going to turn into Switzerland.

Whats getting my goat atm is the spiteful attitude of the Leavers - when a movement is formed out the marginalised and disenfranchised, shutting down those who disagree seems to show a lack of self awareness, and we don't need lessons in 'democracy' from those that shout 'you lost,STFU and get with the program' when opposing views are aired, highlighted by fatuous and moronic cut n paste jobs about petitioning results of football matches and lottery draws. Opposition and free speech is a fundamental part of democracy - hopefully they'll learn, given that there are many decisions to be made, and many wrong ones will be made and desenting voices will be more important than ever, and the ones most likely to be marginalised are ones that voted 'Leave'
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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby houston4044 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:44 pm

someone else wrote:
Whats getting my goat atm is the spiteful attitude of the Leavers - when a movement is formed out the marginalised and disenfranchised, shutting down those who disagree seems to show a lack of self awareness, and we don't need lessons in 'democracy' from those that shout 'you lost,STFU and get with the program' when opposing views are aired, highlighted by fatuous and moronic cut n paste jobs about petitioning results of football matches and lottery draws. Opposition and free speech is a fundamental part of democracy - hopefully they'll learn, given that there are many decisions to be made, and many wrong ones will be made and desenting voices will be more important than ever, and the ones most likely to be marginalised are ones that voted 'Leave'


To be fair neither side is exactly covering themselves in glory, ironic that the first emotional and engaging election in decades which everyone had been saying had been lacking is the one that has ended up tearing the country apart. It's almost if voter apathy actually held us together, no one cares so no one gets upset.

The Labour infighting has got to be the stupidest thing about the whole Referendum; the one time they could have snatched a despondent and divided electorate and they're too busy trying to remove someone and then elect a leader who is going to be so damaged by this that they won't win an election regardless of who wins as everyone's going to view them as damaged goods.

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Re: POLL: The EU Referendum

Postby Gandalf the Red » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:45 pm

There's more to it than that.

What you know as Labour has been infiltrated by Leftist Militants that want anyone that doesn't agree with them out. I've seen it happen locally over the last couple of years. Well before the last general election.

What was a normal "suburban" Labour controlled town council that was more bothered about things like wheelie bins, planning permission and dog fouling than anything else now has meetings about "getting rid of Trident", "supporting Palestinians" and other such causes. Stuff that may go down well in a Student Union or Inner City constituency, but not in a predominantly white, mainly working/middle class area.

Quite a few of the members that have been there for years have just given up and left them to it. In the local elections they didn't even have anyone to put leaflets through the doors as the people who have done it for years have gone and the new "right on" types won't do it as they think it's beneath them. :lol:

The party is on a path to self destruction. I can actually see the Liberals getting back in around here next time and that's saying something.
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