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August 6-9, Catton Park, Walton on Trent, Derbyshire
bloodfiend
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Re: Next announcement

Postby bloodfiend » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:06 pm

houston4044 wrote:Going on from Beardy's point, if BG still haven't sold out a one off show at the forum a year after going on sale then clearly the demand isn't there. If money was an issue you'd have had a year to save up, if most people who claimed to be massive fans of theirs (which by the sounds of it is they have a small but vocal fanbase) would travel for the event. The forum holds a few thousand, minus all the fans who can't make it that particular day then you get the image that it's a case of the demand isn't that great in terms of number of people; so therefore should get a slot at BOA more befitting that, say 4th/5th?


Comparing Blind Guardian to last year's special guests, I think Carcass, Amon Amarth and certainly Dimmu would struggle to sell out the Forum as well. BG has less pulling power than the other 2 special guests this year, but have the advantage of being something of a rarity in the UK (all the will have done since BOA 08 is 2 gigs in London), which would elevate them above the similarly sized Cannibal Corpse on the line up. 4th or 5th is way too low down, as they're far more of a draw than the likes of Ensiferum, Sepultura etc.

I understand the point about Avantasia being given the special guest slot, and only getting a think crowd, suggesting that power metal doesn't have a massive fan base at BOA, but Blind Guardian got a sizeable crowd in 08 and would do the same this year imo. A band like Gamma Ray, despite being big in power metal circles, would only be able to command a slot of about 4th on the bill at BOA, but Blind Guardian are more popular among the BOA crowd and could pull the special guest slot off imo. Certainly if Dimmu can still get the special guest slot, then Blind Guardian can also.

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Re: Next announcement

Postby cthulhu » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:30 pm

bloodfiend wrote:Comparing Blind Guardian to last year's special guests, I think Carcass, Amon Amarth and certainly Dimmu would struggle to sell out the Forum as well.


Wouldn't like to comment on the state of Carcass or Dimmu as i have no evidence to support a claim and am too lazy to look it up but Amon Amarth would almost certainly have no issues at all selling out the forum with a years planning and as an exclusive for the UK that year.

Their current club tour is already 50% sold out (7/14 venues), and of the ones they've played already only Norwich has failed to sell out.
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Re: Next announcement

Postby Bearstock » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:44 pm

Danroush said he's not gonna pay to see them in te town he's currently living in. Fair play due to the price and sure would see them if they were on at the festival you were at.

The key question being though:

"Would Blind Guardian be a reason for you to buy a ticket if you weren't already going to do so?"




Also Houston asked how come it's just Sunday and not more staggered in terms of upcoming announcements.


Similar scenario. Opeth are no rarity really and whilst they've potentially lost a few longer term fans they've also gained new ones and are a pretty big deal in Metal Hammer/Scuzz terms and a safe bet. A big name if you like.


Likewise Sabaton have been building a reputation with their live shows and often seem to go down a storm at festivals.



Not sure whom the Sunday special guest is gonna be obviously but would assume they'll be someone who interests some but isn't as well known/hyped up as Opeth or Sabaton for example.
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Re: Next announcement

Postby patrickransom » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:38 pm

I'd assume Sunday special guest would be someone fairly popular, that slot usually pulls some of the biggest crowds of the weekend (judging by Anthrax and Amon Amarth's crowds), I still think it's going to be Meshuggah but it could turn out to be Cradle of Filth (hopefully not though)

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Re: Next announcement

Postby houston4044 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:59 pm

The only way I can see BG playing is because BOA feel the need to compensate for a lack of power metal overall. Rather than try and spread the appeal to that audience over several bands of differing sizes, they book just one big name band (in the power metal genre) and give them a prominent slot. Problem with that logic is that A) we already have Sabaton as SG's (rather than 3rd like 2012) and B) BG could be too expensive (I have no idea if they are).

I think Amon Amarth could sell out the forum if they don't tour the UK until say, 2017 off the back of a new album or do a Devin and make it a special show. Carcass could of when they initially reunited before they did their other shows but not now, their level is probably around Islington level now. Dimmu....yeah they aren't going to play the forum soon.

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Re: Next announcement

Postby Danroush » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:15 pm

Beardy wrote:So what you're saying is that Blind Guardian aren't worth paying to see even if they're playing in the town you live in? Fair enough. I mean, to paraphrase a famous saying, if they were playing at the bottom of my garden I'd close the curtains so I understand totally.






:-P :lol:


Nice way of ignoring my point. Thing is, if I was still in Nottingham where I normally live, and really really liked them, I wouldn't go to London because for a single gig it's just not worth the money, whereas them playing a festival I'm considering would be a massive pull. Powerwolf are a good example of a band I love but wouldn't go to London for, but them being announced would have a pretty sizeable pull for me.
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Re: Next announcement

Postby Gandalf the Red » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:35 pm

I'm the same. Love Blind Guardian. But there aren't that many bands that I'll travel to London to see now.
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Re: Next announcement

Postby Tet » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:24 am

Bearstock wrote:Would Blind Guardian be a reason for you to buy a ticket if you weren't already going to do so?

Yes, and that's not just a hypothetical question for me. For the first time in forever, I haven't bought a early bird ticket. The lineups have been so poor of late that I'm considering giving Bloodstock a miss for the first time this year. The addition of Delain has helped, but Blind Guardian being announced would definitely tip the balance for me.
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Re: Next announcement

Postby Beardy » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:38 am

Soooo, you're both saying that Blind Guardian aren't worth travelling to see then? I can get behind that :-P :lol:

Maybe my outlook's a bit different because it costs me £35-40 in transport costs alone for any gig I go to in Manchester (if I need to get home the same night for work anyway) but if I really want to see a band and they're only doing one gig, wherever it is, I'll make the effort to go (especially if I have a full year to save/make arrangements for it :-P ). There's a whole bunch of bands I won't travel for anymore, simply because I've seen them so many times and it's no big deal if I miss them but if it's a band I've never seen before or a 'special' show by a band I really like then, work commitments allowing, I'll be there.

To go off on a slight tangent, and actually make a vaguely serious point, does anyone else feel that the 'festival culture' we have now is actually detrimental to bands doing proper headline tours? Bands seem content to just do a few festivals or the odd glorified all dayer rather than tour 'properly' slumming it on the 'toilet circuit' and building their fanbase, fans are content to see a bunch of bands playing shortened sets in the same place rather than travelling a bit (even walking to the other side of town sometimes) to see a full headline show...

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Re: Next announcement

Postby Skippy » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:28 am

Beardy wrote:Soooo, you're both saying that Blind Guardian aren't worth travelling to see then? I can get behind that :-P :lol:

Maybe my outlook's a bit different because it costs me £35-40 in transport costs alone for any gig I go to in Manchester (if I need to get home the same night for work anyway) but if I really want to see a band and they're only doing one gig, wherever it is, I'll make the effort to go (especially if I have a full year to save/make arrangements for it :-P ). There's a whole bunch of bands I won't travel for anymore, simply because I've seen them so many times and it's no big deal if I miss them but if it's a band I've never seen before or a 'special' show by a band I really like then, work commitments allowing, I'll be there.

To go off on a slight tangent, and actually make a vaguely serious point, does anyone else feel that the 'festival culture' we have now is actually detrimental to bands doing proper headline tours? Bands seem content to just do a few festivals or the odd glorified all dayer rather than tour 'properly' and fans are content to see a bunch of bands playing shortened sets in the same place rather than travelling a bit (even walking to the other side of town sometimes) to see a full headline show...

Were it another point in my life, I would almost certainly be rushing to go see Blind Guardian, I'm not sure when I'll have the chance again. However, the fact that I'm on the dole, and that a trip to London would take up (at this point) at least a third of the money I currently have, it's simply not feasible. However, if the same gig was in somewhere like Birmingham or Leeds, I wouldn't hesitate to travel there, it's much more affordable.

For me personally, a festival doesn't ruin my gig-going at all, but I see what you mean. However, I think its more the massively limited press coverage that certain bands have that stop them doing UK tours. It's often the same bands that play festivals all the time that do do tours - Amon Amarth, Sabaton, Opeth, etc. will play a tour then do a festival or two before or after, and seem to do pretty well at it. I think perhaps a bigger issue it that festivals play a massive part in what bands BECOME popular, and are then able to tour. Reading about them in rags like Metal Hammer, or playing a festival - these seem to be the only way people find bands nowadays, and its a very limiting view of what music is out there.
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Re: Next announcement

Postby bloodfiend » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:33 am

cthulhu wrote:
bloodfiend wrote:Comparing Blind Guardian to last year's special guests, I think Carcass, Amon Amarth and certainly Dimmu would struggle to sell out the Forum as well.


Wouldn't like to comment on the state of Carcass or Dimmu as i have no evidence to support a claim and am too lazy to look it up but Amon Amarth would almost certainly have no issues at all selling out the forum with a years planning and as an exclusive for the UK that year.

Their current club tour is already 50% sold out (7/14 venues), and of the ones they've played already only Norwich has failed to sell out.


Ok so Amon Amarth have more pulling power than BG - and tbh I thought AA should have headlined the Friday last year and Down been Sunday special guests - but comparing BG to other recent special guests, i.e. Carcass, Dimmu Borgir, Accept, Anthrax, Testament, Watain, Rhapsody, Morbid Angel, etc, then Blind Guardian are a similar size (although smaller than this years special guests admittedly). The major doubt of them appearing is not their size, but the fee they'd demand, as alluded to by Soze.

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Re: Next announcement

Postby Soze » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:51 am

bloodfiend wrote:Ok so Amon Amarth have more pulling power than BG - and tbh I thought AA should have headlined the Friday last year and Down been Sunday special guests - but comparing BG to other recent special guests, i.e. Carcass, Dimmu Borgir, Accept, Anthrax, Testament, Watain, Rhapsody, Morbid Angel, etc, then Blind Guardian are a similar size (although smaller than this years special guests admittedly). The major doubt of them appearing is not their size, but the fee they'd demand, as alluded to by Soze.


Anthrax are miles bigger than Blind Guardian in the UK. They could comfortably sell out a full tour of 2,000 capacity venues across the country, especially now that Belladonna is back.

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Re: Next announcement

Postby houston4044 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:28 pm

bloodfiend wrote:
Ok so Amon Amarth have more pulling power than BG - and tbh I thought AA should have headlined the Friday last year and Down been Sunday special guests - but comparing BG to other recent special guests, i.e. Carcass, Dimmu Borgir, Accept, Anthrax, Testament, Watain, Rhapsody, Morbid Angel, etc, then Blind Guardian are a similar size (although smaller than this years special guests admittedly). The major doubt of them appearing is not their size, but the fee they'd demand, as alluded to by Soze.


Down are far bigger than Amon Amarth, Down have sold out academy venues for years whereas AA haven't yet. I'd even venture to say Down are about the same size as Within Temptation (or just a tad smaller).

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Re: Next announcement

Postby euantehclansman » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:23 pm

Beardy wrote:To go off on a slight tangent, and actually make a vaguely serious point, does anyone else feel that the 'festival culture' we have now is actually detrimental to bands doing proper headline tours? Bands seem content to just do a few festivals or the odd glorified all dayer rather than tour 'properly' slumming it on the 'toilet circuit' and building their fanbase, fans are content to see a bunch of bands playing shortened sets in the same place rather than travelling a bit (even walking to the other side of town sometimes) to see a full headline show...


Definitely. Very few bands tour here over the summer because people are all at festivals, so the bands might as well get themselves on those bills instead. Then when bands do tour, it's every bloody band at once from October > December. Even if you can afford the gigs, sometimes there's 3 metal gigs a night on.
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Re: Next announcement

Postby Gandalf the Red » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:31 pm

It's getting just as bad in the February 'til May slot now.
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