Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

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one rode to asa bay
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby one rode to asa bay » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:08 am

Tbh it's probably better to say it's corrupt mate, otherwise you have to admit to having utterly shite taste.
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Blake_Porter » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:10 am

impervious wrote:
Bisset wrote:I don't want to give the name of the person who told me which might sound like a cop out but their band did win and were told by the main man himself.

I'm a reasonable guy and I'm not afraid to eat humble pie, if I have been speaking out my anus I'll withdraw anything. Not trying to cause any offence by this you understand.


When you are suggesting that the judging of M2TM is corrupt, you can either back it up with solid evidence or withdraw it.



here is evidence
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Gandalf the Red » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:23 am

:lol:
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Blake_Porter » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:36 am

I actually enjoyed them, but Alobe With Wolves? Bloodstock? There is definitely something wrong there
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby tmcgoay » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:41 am

the M2tM competition lends itself to being democratic rather than meritocratic. it is a popularity contest in most cases and i have seen bands that would not necessarily fit at bloodstock get to the final purely on dragging everyones wives, girlfriends, brothers, sisters, mums dads, aunts, uncles, etc. some of these bands just wanted a gig or to win a battle of the bands. Which ever way it is set up someone will be unhappy with the bands that go through and the way in which they win their regional final. The bands that do win tend to have been trying for a couple of years and have a good reputation and are known outside their region.
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Bisset » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:20 pm

impervious wrote:
Bisset wrote:I don't want to give the name of the person who told me which might sound like a cop out but their band did win and were told by the main man himself.

I'm a reasonable guy and I'm not afraid to eat humble pie, if I have been speaking out my anus I'll withdraw anything. Not trying to cause any offence by this you understand.


When you are suggesting that the judging of M2TM is corrupt, you can either back it up with solid evidence or withdraw it.


Alright just sooth your boobs there pal. Just because I've heard something and seen other things doesn't make it true, nor was I suggesting the entire thing was "corrupt". With these competitions there's always going to be accusations of fixing or judges being unfair. I was simply reiterating what I had heard.
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Gandalf the Red » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:34 pm

Nobody's accusing the MTTM or festival of corruption in the way of backhanders. But this festival reeks of nepotism. Always has done. And it's never exactly been hidden either.
“He likes having the ball, playing football, passes. It’s like an orchestra. But it’s a silent song. But I like heavy metal more. I always want it loud.” - Jürgen Klopp

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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby cthulhu » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:06 pm

Gandalf the Red wrote:Nobody's accusing the MTTM or festival of corruption in the way of backhanders. But this festival reeks of nepotism. Always has done. And it's never exactly been hidden either.

Absolutely this.

I know some judges locally who are fantastic at it, I mean they have a lot of reason to be biased but as far as i've noticed they've not done that...then the final roles around and the winner(s) of the round suddenly make a lot less sense. The best band doesn't ever seem to go through (that's not a taste based thing either I mean performance wise). Hell we had a deathcore band go through for last year simply because they'd entered a few times and hadn't won until then.

No surprise a good number of bands these days are avoiding even entering the competition.
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Johnny Tightlips » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:39 am

The thing that I find daft about MTTM, and correct me if I'm wrong here Rob, but one band has to win each of the regional finals. Logically, if every band that entered one particular regions heats were all atypical BOA bands, say 10 metalcore bands and 10 screamo bands, then one of those bands would have to win and play at BOA, despite the fact that those genres are not typically seen as traditional BOA genres. Really, MTTM relies on the fact that every region of the UK has a good spread of genres within its local band scene, whereas the reality often is the opposite.

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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby cthulhu » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:55 pm

Johnny Tightlips wrote:The thing that I find daft about MTTM, and correct me if I'm wrong here Rob, but one band has to win each of the regional finals. Logically, if every band that entered one particular regions heats were all atypical BOA bands, say 10 metalcore bands and 10 screamo bands, then one of those bands would have to win and play at BOA, despite the fact that those genres are not typically seen as traditional BOA genres. Really, MTTM relies on the fact that every region of the UK has a good spread of genres within its local band scene, whereas the reality often is the opposite.


Your assumption is correct regarding the process although it's worth noting that Simon has booked atypical BoA bands over typical choices in the past often upsetting a lot of the other bands who ran, their allies in the local scene and the folks who aren't reallly a fan of core based music...which is basically most of the Bloodstock audience.

That's a fair point but what that doesn't account for is the better bands not winning. If you're playing complex music perfectly and get the best crowd response according to the rules you're the band they pick...but all too often that band churning out riffs that Entombed probably thought of years ago but deemed not good enough to make the CD and who aren't all that tight live and don't really have the crowd worked up, that band go through.
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby CelestialWishDaniel » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:56 pm

Johnny Tightlips wrote:The thing that I find daft about MTTM, and correct me if I'm wrong here Rob, but one band has to win each of the regional finals. Logically, if every band that entered one particular regions heats were all atypical BOA bands, say 10 metalcore bands and 10 screamo bands, then one of those bands would have to win and play at BOA, despite the fact that those genres are not typically seen as traditional BOA genres. Really, MTTM relies on the fact that every region of the UK has a good spread of genres within its local band scene, whereas the reality often is the opposite.


Honestly, I reckon that's the issue, I mean, I don't know much about Extreme Metal, so I can't really talk about that, but I do that in my area, there is like one melodic band for every 8 extreme bands, and I can name about 5 or 6 melodic bands in this area that are active. If the one melodic band in a group of 5 death metal bands won metal to the masses every time, we'd start to run out of bands and repeat winners, and that'd be just as controversial, really. I, personally, accept that judges have their biases, if I was judging, it would essentially be the best singer goes through, unless a future Dark Tranquility show up and steal the show, so while Simon's choices don't do me any favours, I kind of get why he makes them, the choices I've known about anyway. I say it'd help the situation a lot if there was more than one way to get publically chosen for Bloodstock, perhaps one that actively involves the forums?

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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Rob Bannister » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:21 pm

Well, of the five bands that have got through M2TM East Midlands over the past 3 years, we have seen Incinery (thrash), Airstryke (glam), Line Of Fire (Southern/stoner/hard rock), Cruel Humanity (Black Metal) and Cacodaemonic (Blackened Death Metal). Airstryke in particular were as far from being a "stock" Bloodstock band as you can get but absolutely killed it when they played the final. There have been really good bands (of all genres) that have not got through the heats or who have lost out at the final simply because their performance on the day wasn't the best performance of the day. I don't agree with Simon 100% of the time but his judgements are solid and as far from being "pre-meditated" or "corrupt" as you can get.
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Rob Bannister » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:27 pm

CelestialWishDaniel wrote:

Honestly, I reckon that's the issue, I mean, I don't know much about Extreme Metal, so I can't really talk about that, but I do that in my area, there is like one melodic band for every 8 extreme bands, and I can name about 5 or 6 melodic bands in this area that are active. If the one melodic band in a group of 5 death metal bands won metal to the masses every time, we'd start to run out of bands and repeat winners, and that'd be just as controversial, really. I, personally, accept that judges have their biases, if I was judging, it would essentially be the best singer goes through, unless a future Dark Tranquility show up and steal the show, so while Simon's choices don't do me any favours, I kind of get why he makes them, the choices I've known about anyway. I say it'd help the situation a lot if there was more than one way to get publically chosen for Bloodstock, perhaps one that actively involves the forums?


I can honestly say that I can count on one hand the number of quality "melodic" bands I've had apply for M2TM East Midlands over the past 3 years and one of those didn't even bother to reply to my emails when I offered them a slot!
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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Beardy » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:49 pm

The main problem with MTTM for me is that I've seen too many bands get through their heats based on the usual "battle of the bands" problem of X band just getting everyone they know to come down and vote for them regardless of whether they like metal or will attend Bloodstock while (subjectively) "better" bands miss out because even if every judge votes for them there's not enough 'points' available to make up the shortfall.

Fair enough, Simon picks the band from the final that goes on to play Bloodstock and whether you agree with his choice or not is entirely subjective... but I think he often doesn't have the best lot of bands to choose from at the final(s) because they've usually not made it through the heats... or certainly that was my experience from when I was a judge one year. After a band that I know for a fact dragged loads of people who didn't even like metal down to vote for them, because I worked with half of them, went through to the final despite not impressing any of the judges either at their heat or in the semi-final while a band that had garnered the votes of every judge didn't I said I didn't want to be involved any more and I've stuck to that.

I'm not sure if there's still direct bookings made to the New Blood stage or if it's all down through MTTM these days but I would like to see an even mix of bands coming through the competition and ones booked direct after impressing members of the team at smaller gigs around the country.

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Re: Possible Improvements to the New Blood Stage

Postby Rob Bannister » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:30 pm

My heats were scored 50% by the paying public and 50% by judges (2 or 3 and all involved in bands/metal scene). This tends to ensure that a less able band with lots of friends are not more likely to go through to the final than a more able band with a smaller local following. I also used a voting system where punters (and judges) scored bands from 6 points down to 1 point. No system is perfect but I feel it worked well for my M2TM.
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