Sunday Special Guest

August 6-9, Catton Park, Walton on Trent, Derbyshire
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Soze
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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Soze » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:58 pm

Danroush wrote:
Soze wrote:Would you even want to see this current line up play Jester Race? It's a completely different band.


No it isn't, same vocalist in Anders, and Björn Gelotte was there too. Also they still have 3 members from Whoracle onwards and 4 from colony onwards.

For the most part in Flames is the same band it was when it made the older stuff people whine about, bar Lunar strain which is piss poor compared to the other pre 2000 releases anyway. Just because they changed musically over time as a band, doesn't magically mean the band members stopped being the same people.

Of course there were a couple that left after Jester Race, but most of the people who go on about them having no original members tend to view Whoracle, Colony and even Clayman in the same way they view Jester Race.

Carried on reading the thread after typing the post and noticed someone else briefly mentioned this, but leaving it as it is due to the rest of the post being different. Also note this is a general post about a very common (and inaccurate) attitude I see to In Flames as opposed to fully directed at you Soze.


My retort was solely to The Jester Race although I think it's that album and Whoracle that most people look back on as their real classics.

The line up for that pair was Anders on vocals, who is still there, Johan Larsson on bass, who left after Whoracle, Jesper Stromblad and Glenn Ljungstrom on guitar, neither of whom are still there, one leaving after Whoracle, the other several years later (officially due to alcohol issues but recent interviews suggest musical differences) and Bjorn Gelotte who is still there but now plays guitar rather than the drums.

So musically, it is totally different. No instrumentalist on The Jester Race is either still there or playing the same instrument.

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Gandalf the Red
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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Gandalf the Red » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:08 pm

And most importantly they were the main songwriters.
“He likes having the ball, playing football, passes. It’s like an orchestra. But it’s a silent song. But I like heavy metal more. I always want it loud.” - Jürgen Klopp

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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Tet » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:01 pm

Beardy wrote:Surely everyone knows at least the song "Black Metal" don't they?

Nope. I wouldn't have the slightest clue what it sounded like. Other than crap, probably. Venom were one of those bands that sounded shit when I first heard them, so I didn't bother to investigate any closer. They were just a bit too early for me to be hearing them played in clubs, and a were around at a time when I wouldn't have been exposed to them on the Internet either. So no, I don't know the song.
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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby cthulhu » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:56 pm

Gandalf the Red wrote:And most importantly they were the main songwriters.

I may be mistaken here and I'm not willing to get up and go check my CD's to verify it but wasn't the primary song writer up until like 2 or 3 albums ago Jesper Stromblad? Not that this invalidates your point in any way of course.
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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Gandalf the Red » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:15 pm

cthulhu wrote:
Gandalf the Red wrote:And most importantly they were the main songwriters.

I may be mistaken here and I'm not willing to get up and go check my CD's to verify it but wasn't the primary song writer up until like 2 or 3 albums ago Jesper Stromblad? Not that this invalidates your point in any way of course.


Ah. The reply was mainly to Dan's point which implies it's the same band now as then even though the creative heart of the band is different.
Danroush wrote:
Soze wrote:Would you even want to see this current line up play Jester Race? It's a completely different band.


No it isn't, same vocalist in Anders, and Björn Gelotte was there too. Also they still have 3 members from Whoracle onwards and 4 from colony onwards.
“He likes having the ball, playing football, passes. It’s like an orchestra. But it’s a silent song. But I like heavy metal more. I always want it loud.” - Jürgen Klopp

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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby houston4044 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:32 pm

The creative heart of the band is a bit irrelevant though in that we're talking about them playing a classic album rather than writing a new one like that. Personally I think it's a moot point, I'd rather any version of in flames perform Jester Race than a Siren Charms heavy set (ruined them in September for me)

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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Gandalf the Red » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:46 pm

The remaining members from that era seem to have no intention of playing any of that material.
“He likes having the ball, playing football, passes. It’s like an orchestra. But it’s a silent song. But I like heavy metal more. I always want it loud.” - Jürgen Klopp

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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby cthulhu » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:24 pm

Here's an anecdote for some of you that might amuse you I actually got to interview Niclas Engelin and Bjorn Gelotte not that long ago and when i asked why they never play songs off of the Jester Race live anymore they replied by telling me they did play a bunch of songs off of that album in 2008...was worthy of a face palm.

From all the interviews i've read with them though they don't seem to like metal anymore and more annoyingly don't understand why they should bother to play any of the old stuff at all.
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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Beardy » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:52 pm

Truth be told, I've long given up on In Flames, which is sad because they were one of my favourite bands at one point but a slew of increasingly worse albums and some terrible live performances have taken any desire to see them live away. I'd rather see Jesper's new(ish) band The Resistance or see him put a new Dimension Zero line-up together... It's just sad that so many great songs will probably never be played live en masse by at least some of the people involved in their writing again...

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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Bearstock » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:50 am

Looking at recent setlists there's one song from Clayman and that's as far back as they're going.

1 from Soundtrack To Your Escape and finishing on Take This Life from Come Clarity.

I kinda gave up on them a bit too after Come Clarity.

I don;t mind that album but at times to be fair but Soundtrack I hardly listen too and barely heard anything newer.

2 songs from Reroute To Remain make 5 songs out of a 15 song playlist I'm familiar with and even fewer I actually like :(
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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Danroush » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:36 am

Soze wrote:
Danroush wrote:
Soze wrote:Would you even want to see this current line up play Jester Race? It's a completely different band.


No it isn't, same vocalist in Anders, and Björn Gelotte was there too. Also they still have 3 members from Whoracle onwards and 4 from colony onwards.

For the most part in Flames is the same band it was when it made the older stuff people whine about, bar Lunar strain which is piss poor compared to the other pre 2000 releases anyway. Just because they changed musically over time as a band, doesn't magically mean the band members stopped being the same people.

Of course there were a couple that left after Jester Race, but most of the people who go on about them having no original members tend to view Whoracle, Colony and even Clayman in the same way they view Jester Race.

Carried on reading the thread after typing the post and noticed someone else briefly mentioned this, but leaving it as it is due to the rest of the post being different. Also note this is a general post about a very common (and inaccurate) attitude I see to In Flames as opposed to fully directed at you Soze.


My retort was solely to The Jester Race although I think it's that album and Whoracle that most people look back on as their real classics.

The line up for that pair was Anders on vocals, who is still there, Johan Larsson on bass, who left after Whoracle, Jesper Stromblad and Glenn Ljungstrom on guitar, neither of whom are still there, one leaving after Whoracle, the other several years later (officially due to alcohol issues but recent interviews suggest musical differences) and Bjorn Gelotte who is still there but now plays guitar rather than the drums.

So musically, it is totally different. No instrumentalist on The Jester Race is either still there or playing the same instrument.



Do you mean "no instrumentalist is BOTH there AND playing the same instrument?"

But yeah, part of what I said was about In Flames' older period in general. With Jester Race there's a slightly stronger argument against than for in terms of it being the same band (although still having the vocalist and current lead guitarist is a reasonable argument "for"), but with whoracle, colony and clayman it's pretty much the same band now as it was then, bar Jesper, whereas I've very frequently seen claims that "it's a completely different band to the one who made those earlier albums" in reference to everything pre Re-route to Remain

Whether those band members themselves have changed musically is a different matter though, and I didn't bother going to see them on this tour even though I've wanted to see a proper length set by them for years (only seen them in 2011 for under 45 mins on two occasions, although as a quick note they played at least a song off whoracle, colony and clayman) because I'm starting to somewhat give up on them, along with a roughly 50euro price tag once you included fees (bloody german gig prices).
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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Warlock » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:32 am

fluffkitten wrote:
Warlock wrote:Wrong, they were brilliant, they seem to play lower slots at other festivals these days so I think they could


Everyone has different views but having bought Welcome to Hell and Black Metal when they came out in '81 & '82 I'll cheerfully stand by my opinion that Venom were rubbish and that just because they're influential doesn't mean they were any good.

But no point arguing because its just opinion/taste.


Fair enough, would of thought when they came out they would of been mind blowing! Nothing was that heavy back then, and while they may not have the most talent they still had some great riffs and classic tunes imo

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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Warlock » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:38 am

cthulhu wrote:The thing that hurt Venom the most is that Bathory did more or less the same thing but better.


Not really, Venom were alot more catchy and Anthemic, where as Bathory were much darker and more extreme, may have taken over from them though along with Celtic Frost for taking the genre forwards more
Last edited by Warlock on Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Warlock » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:44 am

Soze wrote:To me Venom are proof that song writing skills are more important than musicianship! Sure none of them were very technically gifted but they wrote some fantastic stuff, their first three albums are all chock full of great riffs. I spent my early teens quite obsessed with them until the likes of Slayer and Exodus came along. Admittedly once the thrash movement took off they quickly feel into irrelevance but they still hold a place in my affections.

As for Bathory, I respectfully disagree. Their first album was the only real Venom copycat and it's not a patch on Venom themselves. Bathory came good on their third album when they really started to forge their own identity.


Yeah I agree with this

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Re: Sunday Special Guest

Postby Warlock » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:54 am

Bearstock wrote:I think the big issue with Venom being high up the bill is they're one of those bands whom seem more well known than they actually are.


By that I mean you'll hear their name a lot but hardly ever hear any of their songs unless you make a point of listening to them.


Maybe but Bloodstock is meant to be for more serious Metal fans as oppose to casual fans that just hear whats covered in the media, genre defining bands should be at the top (not necessarily headliner) in my opinion