How BOA is changing through the years

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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby houston4044 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:21 am

I see your point man, but to be fair, Slev put a floor on the argument so it would be sensible.

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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Danroush » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:41 am

Perhaps, but I believe the floor was put in the wrong place. In the context of Bloodstock (As this is the BOA forum after all) LoG, MH, Trivium are mainstream headliners where Behemoth, Emperor, King Diamond are not. Even though Emperor were big enough to headline, they're not mainstream within metal in general, and nor are Dimmu.

Mainstream within their own sub genre perhaps, but not particularly relevant when discussing the festival as a whole.
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Kanwulf » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:19 pm

Danroush wrote:Perhaps, but I believe the floor was put in the wrong place. In the context of Bloodstock (As this is the BOA forum after all) LoG, MH, Trivium are mainstream headliners where Behemoth, Emperor, King Diamond are not. Even though Emperor were big enough to headline, they're not mainstream within metal in general, and nor are Dimmu.

Mainstream within their own sub genre perhaps, but not particularly relevant when discussing the festival as a whole.


Not trying to sound elitist but Dimmu are pretty mainstream nowadays. Not that that isa bad thing because I love the band.
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Czech's Mate » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:44 pm

How Bloodstock is changing over the years:

From a festival I always went to and enjoyed going to, to one with a mainstage bill that for the last couple of years has not generally been to my taste and one that I am unlikely to go to until it improves again.......which based on the latest offerings may be never
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Gandalf the Red » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:12 pm

bloodfiend wrote:Basically Bloodstock used to be a little power metal fest, and in order to extend beyond that extremely niche market, it turned into a mini-Wacken style outdoor 3 day event, by incoporated more death, black, doom, thrash etc....which dissappointed a load of 50 year-old old duffers who just wanted to watch Primal Fear and Saxon every year at the Derby Assembly Rooms, but most welcomed the change and it has been successful.


The first line up was Saxon, Orange Goblin, Glenn Hughes, Return To The Sabbat, Primal Fear, Freebase, Skyclad, Consumed, Shadowkeep, Underule, Dirty Deeds, Evoke, Occupational Hazard, Area 54, Bloodstream.

Hardly a Power Metal festival* or a line up for "50 year old duffers". Out of the twenty or so that travelled down with me I was by far the oldest at 30 and the vast majority who attended were of a similar age. But you can't let the facts get in the way of a sly dig at people who are older than you. And yes I was there, as I was at all the others.

*Or is Thrash, Folk, Doom, Traditional, Stoner and Death Metal all Power Metal now? In fact there was more Death Metal bands than Power Metal.
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Danroush » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:20 pm

Blake_Porter wrote:
Danroush wrote:Perhaps, but I believe the floor was put in the wrong place. In the context of Bloodstock (As this is the BOA forum after all) LoG, MH, Trivium are mainstream headliners where Behemoth, Emperor, King Diamond are not. Even though Emperor were big enough to headline, they're not mainstream within metal in general, and nor are Dimmu.

Mainstream within their own sub genre perhaps, but not particularly relevant when discussing the festival as a whole.


Not trying to sound elitist but Dimmu are pretty mainstream nowadays. Not that that isa bad thing because I love the band.


They really aren't though. Mainstream for black metal but not metal in general, which is the relevant factor. They play venues of a few hundred when they tour, not a couple of thousand like machine head.
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Noodle » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:30 pm

I still maintain that the formula is largely the same. The festival is a metal festival and it books metal bands, with a few that stretch beyond. The latter has always been present through the years. What has tended to vary is where they appear.

Is my assessment about as wonky as suggesting that Download used to be a metal festival and that Bloodstock indoor were only interested in power metal and geriatrics?
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby bloodfiend » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:48 pm

Gandalf the Red wrote:
bloodfiend wrote:Basically Bloodstock used to be a little power metal fest, and in order to extend beyond that extremely niche market, it turned into a mini-Wacken style outdoor 3 day event, by incoporated more death, black, doom, thrash etc....which dissappointed a load of 50 year-old old duffers who just wanted to watch Primal Fear and Saxon every year at the Derby Assembly Rooms, but most welcomed the change and it has been successful.


The first line up was Saxon, Orange Goblin, Glenn Hughes, Return To The Sabbat, Primal Fear, Freebase, Skyclad, Consumed, Shadowkeep, Underule, Dirty Deeds, Evoke, Occupational Hazard, Area 54, Bloodstream.

Hardly a Power Metal festival* or a line up for "50 year old duffers". Out of the twenty or so that travelled down with me I was by far the oldest at 30 and the vast majority who attended were of a similar age. But you can't let the facts get in the way of a sly dig at people who are older than you. And yes I was there, as I was at all the others.

*Or is Thrash, Folk, Doom, Traditional, Stoner and Death Metal all Power Metal now? In fact there was more Death Metal bands than Power Metal.


It wasn't a "sly dig about age", I attended the indoor festivals as well, and percentage wise, the crowd was clearly more of a power metal crowd and older than it is now. A death metal band like Bloodstream may have been played, but the larger crowd pulling bands in 2001 were Saxon, Glenn Hughes, Primal Fear and Blaze which clearly appeal more to the power metal crowd. And yes I know it wasn't JUST meant to be a power metal festival, but that was it's core audience and, like it or not, the average age was higher than it is at the festival nowadays. Take 2002, yes Primordial and Bal-Sagoth may have been playing, but they played to small crowds in the Darwin Suite, the bands that got the big crowds in the main stage were Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray, Diamond Head, Threshold and Freedom Call; BLind Guardian, Gamma Ray and Freedom Call are obviously bands who appeal to power metallers, and Diamond Head and Threshold are bands that appeal much more to older fans than younger ones.

There would be some fans who liked heavier stuff as well as power metal (like myself) at the indoor, but generally the crowd were power metal fans. The 2006 experience shows this, when the Friday with the power metal bands (Primal Fear, Axel Rudi Pell, Savage Circus, Majesty) was absolutely rammed, but on the Saturday when the line up had been expanded beyond power metal with My Dying Bride and Deathstars at the top, everyone left and the festival was practically empty at the end.

And my comment about those still wanting a power metal fest at the Assembly Rooms was from when the indoor got cancelled, and there were loads of comments from the predominantly older crowd moaning about the cancellation, the lack of clear vocals at the fest and always ranting "bring back Vince" and other such things. My comment wasn't such a dig about age, more noting the reluctance of some sections of attendees to accept what was a necessary change for the festival.

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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby einherjer » Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:37 am

I think it's obvious Bloodstock has changed over the years.

When I first started going there were a far greater number of Heavy or Power Metal bands on the bill. This saw bands like Balance of Power, Elvenking, Threshold StormWarrior etc a platform to play what most would consider Power Metal I think in country gripped by post Nu Metal shit we were being served.
I also got to see Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray, Hammerfall. Sonata Arctica and Amon Amarth. These bands were considered bigger ,with the exception perhaps of AA at the time) who rarely played the UK and rarely outside London if they did.

The decision to move Bloodstock outdoors saddened me because the indoor fest had such a good vibe. I understand though why this had to be done.
Now there were bands on the bill I didn't like. Most notably The Deathstars and MDB who played the same year as it happens. MDB are/were just dull (I like them on record strangely) and The Deathstars were just out of place at the time. I'd never condone the treatment they received though.

As the Festival grew more and more commercial acts had to be booked it's just simple maths.

I think I would like to see better bands on the Sophie Stage.
This years headliners are pretty weak for me but I'm hoping that alternative Headliners will give us some choice. I'd go for Electric Wizard, Solitude Aeturnus and Dismember personally. However despite my annoyance at this the booking team don't seem to consult me before booking the bands. How dare they :x
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby ana z » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:43 am

cthulhu wrote:Yeah Slev i'd say you're way off with your categorisation there but here's where things get a bit more complex


You can't think of things as "that's mainstream, that's not mainstream" it doesn't work because it's all relative...

- in music as a whole Taylor Swift is mainstream, in comparison Metallica are not.

- In metal Metallica are mainstream, in comparison Dimmu Borgir are not.

- In black metal Dimmu Borgir are mainstream, in comparison Winterfylleth are not

- In the English black metal scene specifically Winterfylleth are mainstream, in comparison Verdelet are not.

- In the English black metal scene again Verdelet could be considered mainstream compared to the bedroom one man band of some guy with 43 likes on facebook and no other outlets for their music.


Does anyone get what i'm saying? When we're talking about metal everything and anything is mainstream and is simultaneously not mainstream.


This ^

I am completely on board with Slev's nomenclature, because from my perspective, that seems right.

I would have thought Bloodstock hovered in between the metal, black metal and English Black metal (or any other specialised sub-genres: thrash, death, doom, etc.) realms, and may therefore consider Metallica/Dimmu Borgir (or equivalent bands) too mainstream for the festival. In this example, the one band that I can see sitting perfectly within Bloodstock is Winterfylleth.

From my perspective, I think I can find examples from the people I know that may support Slev's classification: I have friends who sport the Motorhead t-shirt, but don't own a single album of theirs, happily go to see Machine Head, Slayer, Linkin Park, Muse, or Kings of Leon - and to them it's all rock (of varying degrees of "hardcore-ness"). Then there are the ones that are into metal, but not deeply into it, and may listen to Amon Amarth, Sabaton, Sepultura, etc. These are bands that are undeniably metal bands, but you don't have to look too hard to find. Then there are the ones that listen to somewhat specialised metal bands (doesn't have to be the super-obscure band that plays to 10 of their mates only... Winterfylleth is again, a good example here).

Obviously, the further you go down the list, the harder it becomes to find gigs, festivals, club nights, etc. that cater to your tastes. I liked to think that Bloodstock used to cater to the third kind of people, while throwing in headliners and special guests for the second kind of people to still pull in a fair crowd, and which weren't entirely anathema to the festival. I don't want to pull the usual line of "Bloodstock is turning into Download durr durrr", but when more bands are booked (especially the headliners) that seem to be catering to the first kind of people, it makes me think that the festival has lost that special something that made it the one place people could go to listen to music you couldn't listen to often.

I know you could always provide a number of counter examples of a few bands that have been booked as the undercard in the past couple of years or this year that match this description, but the reality is that this is becoming the exception rather than the norm.
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Nevyn » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:40 am

you cant define metal and put it in boxes or circles or the fans as neither conform to any stereo types for ever fan there are bands you will like and dislike so just because the bands you like and categorize as x,y and z to you might not be to others and a band that was unknown one day is top of the pops the next week and is it suddenly uncool because it got a hit ?
if you don't like the band don't listen to them and let everyone else who does enjoy them
I don't like anyone type of metal I like the band not its title be it gridcore, black, doom, death, goth, powe,r thrash, hard rock, rock and all the others I have missed out I like a band I like them so bloodstock morphs to follow current trends in music and at same time refuses to move away from its founding principles well that sounds pretty good to me hope thy keep doing what thy are doing for many many years to come
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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Warlock » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:54 am

Nevyn wrote:you cant define metal and put it in boxes or circles or the fans as neither conform to any stereo types for ever fan there are bands you will like and dislike so just because the bands you like and categorize as x,y and z to you might not be to others and a band that was unknown one day is top of the pops the next week and is it suddenly uncool because it got a hit ?
if you don't like the band don't listen to them and let everyone else who does enjoy them
I don't like anyone type of metal I like the band not its title be it gridcore, black, doom, death, goth, powe,r thrash, hard rock, rock and all the others I have missed out I like a band I like them so bloodstock morphs to follow current trends in music and at same time refuses to move away from its founding principles well that sounds pretty good to me hope thy keep doing what thy are doing for many many years to come


Nice too see some positivity for Bloodstock on these forums!

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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby houston4044 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:54 am

Warlock wrote:
Nevyn wrote:you cant define metal and put it in boxes or circles or the fans as neither conform to any stereo types for ever fan there are bands you will like and dislike so just because the bands you like and categorize as x,y and z to you might not be to others and a band that was unknown one day is top of the pops the next week and is it suddenly uncool because it got a hit ?
if you don't like the band don't listen to them and let everyone else who does enjoy them
I don't like anyone type of metal I like the band not its title be it gridcore, black, doom, death, goth, powe,r thrash, hard rock, rock and all the others I have missed out I like a band I like them so bloodstock morphs to follow current trends in music and at same time refuses to move away from its founding principles well that sounds pretty good to me hope thy keep doing what thy are doing for many many years to come


Nice too see some positivity for Bloodstock on these forums!


Enjoy it while it lasts, you'll become cynical like the rest of us soon :P

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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Killing_time » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:32 am

They seem to have avoided Power Pop the past two years which is a great thing because it isn't Metal! unfortunatley they are replacing it with other Pop like bands like Within Temptation but not in a great deal so it's ok.

The festival needs more Doom and Black Metal though
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Death to Power Pop!! It should go down with the sinking ship that is Download festival.

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Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Postby Warlock » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:51 am

houston4044 wrote:
Warlock wrote:
Nevyn wrote:you cant define metal and put it in boxes or circles or the fans as neither conform to any stereo types for ever fan there are bands you will like and dislike so just because the bands you like and categorize as x,y and z to you might not be to others and a band that was unknown one day is top of the pops the next week and is it suddenly uncool because it got a hit ?
if you don't like the band don't listen to them and let everyone else who does enjoy them
I don't like anyone type of metal I like the band not its title be it gridcore, black, doom, death, goth, powe,r thrash, hard rock, rock and all the others I have missed out I like a band I like them so bloodstock morphs to follow current trends in music and at same time refuses to move away from its founding principles well that sounds pretty good to me hope thy keep doing what thy are doing for many many years to come


Nice too see some positivity for Bloodstock on these forums!


Enjoy it while it lasts, you'll become cynical like the rest of us soon :P


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