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How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:13 pm
by Slev
OK, this venn diagram is not wholey representative of Bloodstock, but it gives you an idea of what I see happening to the festival:

Image

So, the early days appealed to the more underground types and the metal mainstream.

As the festival grew, it grew into the bigger, more popular, mainstream metal bands.

In recent years, it's grown further, into metal and metalic bands the more general rock crowd like, and has started to include some that mostly only that crowd like (Hatebreed, Machine Head, Trivium, etc).

The breadth of bands is just the same, however, the top of the bill is increasingly not that desired by the traditional Bloodstock crowd, with more bands being added to the undercard to compensate.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:52 pm
by tmcgoay
i didn't think people actually used Venn diagrams

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:56 pm
by bloodfiend
I disgaree - in the early days when it was an indoor festival in Derby, there was far more "general rock fans" there than nowadays, i.e. the people attending the festival were generally fans of Saxon, Diamond Head, Blind Guardian, Helloween, etc, the general attendees were certainly not underground metal fans and would have hated any kind of black, death or doom metal at the festival.

Nowadays the likes of Emperor, Behemoth, 1349, Rotting Christ, Mayhem, Carcass, etc get booked and these bands obviously appeal more to underground metal fans, and they go down well. However the majority of the attendees at the indoor wouldn't have wanted to see them.

Yes there are more mainstream metal fans, but their certainly weren't more underground metal fans in the earlier days of Bloodstock, and there was probably a higher percentage of general rock fans back then than now.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:57 pm
by bloodfiend
tmcgoay wrote:i didn't think people actually used Venn diagrams


Having 3 spheres all intersecting is the generally recognised method, this is just random splonges all over the place.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:16 pm
by tmcgoay
3 circles intersecting is the easy demonstration that we are taught in school, they can have as many circles as you like, it just gets more confusing

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:38 pm
by Gandalf the Red
bloodfiend wrote:I disgaree - in the early days when it was an indoor festival in Derby, there was far more "general rock fans" there than nowadays, i.e. the people attending the festival were generally fans of Saxon, Diamond Head, Blind Guardian, Helloween, etc, the general attendees were certainly not underground metal fans and would have hated any kind of black, death or doom metal at the festival.

Nowadays the likes of Emperor, Behemoth, 1349, Rotting Christ, Mayhem, Carcass, etc get booked and these bands obviously appeal more to underground metal fans, and they go down well. However the majority of the attendees at the indoor wouldn't have wanted to see them.

Yes there are more mainstream metal fans, but their certainly weren't more underground metal fans in the earlier days of Bloodstock, and there was probably a higher percentage of general rock fans back then than now.


The first one was full of Thrash, Death and Black Metal fans there to see Return To The Sabbat.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:21 pm
by houston4044
Wouldn't say BOA since 2012 is all that appealing to general rock fans, the only bands I can see from 2012 that a "general" rock fan would like are:

2012: Dio Disciples, Alice Cooper
2013: Last In Line*, Wolfsbane, Fozzy
2014: Saxon, Resin*
2015: Rob Zombie (at a push)

* wouldn't expect a "general" rock fan to know who they are

Wouldn't say BOA are branching out towards general rock fans at all, in fact compared to the indoor festivals I'd say it's regressing in terms of it's appeal. I can agree with it appealing to mainstream metal fans but I can't imagine the appeal for "general" rock fans is that great especially when there are plenty of other UK fests that cater so much more to that genre.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:04 pm
by Slev
Allow me to clarify:

General rock fans: People who like some metal and/or metalic music, but not into metal as a genre.

Mainstream metal: The kind of stuff played at specialist heavy metal nights. Power, black, folk, thrash, death, etc.

Underground metal: Unsigned/minor British stuff, very specialised imports, once popular bands who no longer have a following.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:18 pm
by Smerphy
See, I'd put General Rock Fans as people who would pay to see Slash, AC/DC, Whitesnake, Journey, Airbourne, Rush, in some cases Metallica and then maybe Iron Maiden, and maaaayybe Motorhead.

Mainstream Metal I would class as stuff like Trivium, Slipknot, Korn, Rob Zombie, Rammstein, Machine Head, Mastodon. Generally bands with a pretty hefty following that play a more radio-friendly version of better Underground bands. A General Rock fan might have heard of some of these bands, but would probably find them to heavy for their tastes.

Underground Metal for me is pretty much all Thrash, Traditional, Death, Black, Progressive, Power, Symphonic, Avant-Garde metal. Bands who are remembered for their albums rather than their hit songs, and for their influence on the scene. These are the bands who you only hear about from talking to other metalheads, you won't find them in mainstream music magazines, and some of the lesser underground bands might appear in Metal Hammer every now and again, like Overkill for example.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:32 pm
by Gandalf the Red
That's showing how definitions have changed as well.

General Rock to me would be someone into U2, Bruce Springsteen, REM, Dire Straits, Status Quo, etc.

Mainstream Metal would be Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, AC/DC, Scorpions, Queensryche, Motorhead, etc.

Underground Metal would be Death, Thrash, Doom, Black, etc.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:51 pm
by bloodfiend
Gandalf the Red wrote:
bloodfiend wrote:I disgaree - in the early days when it was an indoor festival in Derby, there was far more "general rock fans" there than nowadays, i.e. the people attending the festival were generally fans of Saxon, Diamond Head, Blind Guardian, Helloween, etc, the general attendees were certainly not underground metal fans and would have hated any kind of black, death or doom metal at the festival.

Nowadays the likes of Emperor, Behemoth, 1349, Rotting Christ, Mayhem, Carcass, etc get booked and these bands obviously appeal more to underground metal fans, and they go down well. However the majority of the attendees at the indoor wouldn't have wanted to see them.

Yes there are more mainstream metal fans, but their certainly weren't more underground metal fans in the earlier days of Bloodstock, and there was probably a higher percentage of general rock fans back then than now.


The first one was full of Thrash, Death and Black Metal fans there to see Return To The Sabbat.


It was actually more full of mulleted old duffers there to see Saxon, Glenn Hughes and Blaze.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:45 pm
by Kanwulf
Slev wrote:Allow me to clarify:

General rock fans: People who like some metal and/or metalic music, but not into metal as a genre.

Mainstream metal: The kind of stuff played at specialist heavy metal nights. Power, black, folk, thrash, death, etc.

Underground metal: Unsigned/minor British stuff, very specialised imports, once popular bands who no longer have a following.


I wanna go to the same metal nights as you

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:50 pm
by Bearstock
I view it more your general rock fans will probably consider Biffy Clyro their favourites "new" band, Radiohead and Oasis as some sort of demi gods whilst happily wearing an Iron Maiden or AC/DC t shirt but only owning The Number Of The Beast and Back In Black.


Mainstream metal fans are into Slipknot, Lamb Of God, Trivium, Machine Head, maybe Arch Enemy and In Flames these days. It'd be an even split whom view Metallica as either godly metal heroes or washed up overrated hype.

Underground metal fans are keen to let everyone know what obscure black metal or avant garde band they're currently into, always searching for something newer because they over sold the last one and are now bored.


I think the big group missing is the Combination fans.


Read: Myself for example will happily listen to Slipknot and Machine Head, along with Sigh, Taake and Mayhem whilst also loving bands such as Iron Maiden and Judas Priest or enjoying Exodus, Obituary and Testament.

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:53 pm
by Danroush
I just think there's a category missing between mainstream and underground fans. Mainstream still being machine head trivium slipknot rammstein etc, underground being black metal, grindcore and the more extreme stuff, then an in between one for power metal, thrash, the more well known death stuff etcetc

Re: How BOA is changing through the years

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:19 pm
by Kanwulf
Danroush wrote:I just think there's a category missing between mainstream and underground fans. Mainstream still being machine head trivium slipknot rammstein etc, underground being black metal, grindcore and the more extreme stuff, then an in between one for power metal, thrash, the more well known death stuff etcetc


Understream :P