How many more bands?

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Gandalf the Red
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Re: How many more bands?

Postby Gandalf the Red » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:37 pm

To answer the question "How many more bands?".

It might seem controversial to some, but in my opinion there are simply too many bands. I would prefer it if they concentrated on quality over quantity.
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Re: How many more bands?

Postby i0th » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:07 pm

Gandalf the Red wrote:To answer the question "How many more bands?".

It might seem controversial to some, but in my opinion there are simply too many bands. I would prefer it if they concentrated on quality over quantity.


You could drop Sophie to 11 each day and have them playing in the RJD gaps (with small overlaps either side) would avoid any huge clashing, could kill the Jager stage though.
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Re: How many more bands?

Postby houston4044 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:28 pm

Gandalf the Red wrote:To answer the question "How many more bands?".

It might seem controversial to some, but in my opinion there are simply too many bands. I would prefer it if they concentrated on quality over quantity.


To play devil's advocate, if they went for quality over quantity what happens if they book 2 big black/groove metal bands at the expense of say 4 power metal bands? I know it's not representative of the audience as a whole but even the smaller power/folk metal bands are met with a good reception on here, if you go for quality you'll likely to lose those bands.

I say strike a balance but edge more on the quantity side of things, chances are you might find the odd gem here and there.

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Re: How many more bands?

Postby tmcgoay » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:28 pm

i0th wrote:
Gandalf the Red wrote:To answer the question "How many more bands?".

It might seem controversial to some, but in my opinion there are simply too many bands. I would prefer it if they concentrated on quality over quantity.


You could drop Sophie to 11 each day and have them playing in the RJD gaps (with small overlaps either side) would avoid any huge clashing, could kill the Jager stage though.

with the variety of sub-genres there shouldn't really be too much problem caused by clashes and the ability of the organisers to ensure that two of the same weren't playing at the same time
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Re: How many more bands?

Postby Gandalf the Red » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:47 pm

houston4044 wrote:
Gandalf the Red wrote:To answer the question "How many more bands?".

It might seem controversial to some, but in my opinion there are simply too many bands. I would prefer it if they concentrated on quality over quantity.


To play devil's advocate, if they went for quality over quantity what happens if they book 2 big black/groove metal bands at the expense of say 4 power metal bands? I know it's not representative of the audience as a whole but even the smaller power/folk metal bands are met with a good reception on here, if you go for quality you'll likely to lose those bands.

I say strike a balance but edge more on the quantity side of things, chances are you might find the odd gem here and there.


Eh? If you go for quality then those bands would still be there, it's the filler that will be gone. Not that we ever get four quality Power Metal bands anymore....

If you get rid of about ten bands a day then there would be fewer clashes and bands will get longer sets. It seems to be a competition on how many bands you can book rather than getting better bands.

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Re: How many more bands?

Postby pinhead0303 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:06 pm

Gandalf the Red wrote:
houston4044 wrote:
Gandalf the Red wrote:To answer the question "How many more bands?".

It might seem controversial to some, but in my opinion there are simply too many bands. I would prefer it if they concentrated on quality over quantity.


To play devil's advocate, if they went for quality over quantity what happens if they book 2 big black/groove metal bands at the expense of say 4 power metal bands? I know it's not representative of the audience as a whole but even the smaller power/folk metal bands are met with a good reception on here, if you go for quality you'll likely to lose those bands.

I say strike a balance but edge more on the quantity side of things, chances are you might find the odd gem here and there.


Eh? If you go for quality then those bands would still be there, it's the filler that will be gone. Not that we ever get four quality Power Metal bands anymore....

If you get rid of about ten bands a day then there would be fewer clashes and bands will get longer sets. It seems to be a competition on how many bands you can book rather than getting better bands.

It's not like collecting Pokémon. :P


I think the point was that there wouldn't be any Power Metal bands of a high enough quality, never mind four! :P :lol:

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Re: How many more bands?

Postby houston4044 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:21 am

Gandalf the Red wrote:
houston4044 wrote:
Gandalf the Red wrote:To answer the question "How many more bands?".

It might seem controversial to some, but in my opinion there are simply too many bands. I would prefer it if they concentrated on quality over quantity.


To play devil's advocate, if they went for quality over quantity what happens if they book 2 big black/groove metal bands at the expense of say 4 power metal bands? I know it's not representative of the audience as a whole but even the smaller power/folk metal bands are met with a good reception on here, if you go for quality you'll likely to lose those bands.

I say strike a balance but edge more on the quantity side of things, chances are you might find the odd gem here and there.


Eh? If you go for quality then those bands would still be there, it's the filler that will be gone. Not that we ever get four quality Power Metal bands anymore....

If you get rid of about ten bands a day then there would be fewer clashes and bands will get longer sets. It seems to be a competition on how many bands you can book rather than getting better bands.

It's not like collecting Pokémon. :P


wrong end of the stick completly :lol:

You complain there are too many black/groove etc bands but you are also asking the same people to book less bands overall but bigger bands. My point is that if they do as you say chances are they'll keep the ratio of black/groove bands but your going to have less chance of finding an alternative you like because there are going to be less bands playing at the same time...

To put it another way, if you got rid of the New Blood and Jager stages when Kill ii This are playing you're going to have 1 not 2 alternatives to choose from; you would only compound your own problem of there being nothing to watch :lol:

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Re: How many more bands?

Postby Gandalf the Red » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:50 am

My original point was people were trying to work out how to get more bands to play by extending the NB and Jägermeister stages. My view is there should be fewer bands playing, with the Jager stage being scrapped as it's just a waste of space. Most people don't even glance at it whilst walking past.

It's more choice, but it's Hobson's choice. One band that attracts 10 people in the Dog And Duck against another band that gets 5 people in the Rose And Crown.

There's an old saying - Less Is More
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Re: How many more bands?

Postby houston4044 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:51 pm

Gandalf the Red wrote:My original point was people were trying to work out how to get more bands to play by extending the NB and Jägermeister stages. My view is there should be fewer bands playing, with the Jager stage being scrapped as it's just a waste of space. Most people don't even glance at it whilst walking past.

It's more choice, but it's Hobson's choice. One band that attracts 10 people in the Dog And Duck against another band that gets 5 people in the Rose And Crown.

There's an old saying - Less Is More


Right, I got ya now :lol:

I'm of the view there should be a balance between quality and quantity that BOA nearly have right, if the smaller stages had bigger bands on it (rather than just increasing the size of the headliner) then I'd say they would have perfected it. Although I know it won't happen as it's the headliners that draw people in.

If BOA increased the size of the Sophie bands and kept the NB and Jager bands roughly the same size (except for special acoustic sets for example) then I would think that would be fine. As you put it a band may only draw in 5 people, but how do you know that's not from lack of exposure? Take Evil Scarecrow in 2014, hardly a big band but they drew a massive crowd. People would still get decent sized choices between main and sophie and additional choices with the NB and Jager.

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Re: How many more bands?

Postby Skippy » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:16 pm

I'm completely with Gandalf on this, the Jager stage is just a waste of space. The bands playing would be better served on the New Blood anyway, and it's just not a fun stage to watch unless you get there super early. I actually like so many bands that play on there but I just never find the time or inclination to watch most of them. That said, it's probably making more money than it's losing for them, the sponsorship money from Jager probably cancels out the travel fees that Bloodstock might have to pay.
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Re: How many more bands?

Postby Haldamir319 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:20 am

I do wish the Jager stage was used more like it originally was (acoustic sets from bands already playing - Orphaned Land's was great!). Saying that, I've found I enjoy a greater proportion of the bands they book for that stage over Hobgoblin and Sophie stages in general tbh.

As for whether to decrease, stick with, or increase the number of bands playing... I'm undecided. Gandalf has a point, but if by reducing the number of bands playing we get less of the 'good' ones and more of the 'bad' ones it seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot a bit.

If more bands are to be booked, I do like the idea of the double stages sophie tent. I works well at Hellfest (much bigger festival, I know) for the combined 3rd/4th stage.

Overall, if the number of bands were to expand,I think I'd like something more like the following:
(assumes double stage in the Sophie tent).

Main stage:
Stays like it is. 9 bands all getting a minimum of 40 minutes is good going. I would consider having a day of co-headliners (75 min slots each) to allow for some 'almost there' bands to get that final leg up.

Sophie stage (assumes two stages within):
10 minute gap (ie proper piss break, Hellfest's 5 minutes is crazy >_>) between bands. Replicate the ethos of the main stage whereby bands get a minimum of 40 minutes. Would reserve some of the lower/opening slots for a handful of bands that most impressed on the Hobgoblin and jager stages the previous year (allows for progression of up-and-coming bands, while keeping bookings cheap). Would have the stage start at 1045ish, so it's after Hobgoblin but before the main to give staggered cross over.

Hobgoblin stage: Mostly keep it the same. However, I'd add an extra round of competition for the judges, whereby the sort through all the M2TM comp winners, plus the Hobgoblin submissions to proclaim an overall tournament winner. That band would get to play a newly created slot, 2015-2100. Gives the last band the feel of a headliner for that stage, and is something cool for the unsigned bands to vie for on top of the spot they have won.

Jagermeister stage: Keep it. Return it to an acoustic stage. Increase the number of slots to 9 (there are two gaps between main stage bands that aren't currently used, plus I'd have someone play 1030-1050 too). I'd also make sure that the times for the stage were exactly to the limits of when there isn't music on the main stage - it's totally daft that they have some of the bands crossover.
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Re: How many more bands?

Postby Haldamir319 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:43 am

Haldamir319 wrote:I do wish the Jager stage was used more like it originally was (acoustic sets from bands already playing - Orphaned Land's was great!). Saying that, I've found I enjoy a greater proportion of the bands they book for that stage over Hobgoblin and Sophie stages in general tbh.

As for whether to decrease, stick with, or increase the number of bands playing... I'm undecided. Gandalf has a point, but if by reducing the number of bands playing we get less of the 'good' ones and more of the 'bad' ones it seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot a bit.

If more bands are to be booked, I do like the idea of the double stages sophie tent. I works well at Hellfest (much bigger festival, I know) for the combined 3rd/4th stage.

Overall, if the number of bands were to expand,I think I'd like something more like the following:
(assumes double stage in the Sophie tent).

Main stage:
Stays like it is. 9 bands all getting a minimum of 40 minutes is good going. I would consider having a day of co-headliners (75 min slots each) to allow for some 'almost there' bands to get that final leg up.

Sophie stage (assumes two stages within):
10 minute gap (ie proper piss break, Hellfest's 5 minutes is crazy >_>) between bands. Replicate the ethos of the main stage whereby bands get a minimum of 40 minutes. Would reserve some of the lower/opening slots for a handful of bands that most impressed on the Hobgoblin and jager stages the previous year (allows for progression of up-and-coming bands, while keeping bookings cheap). Would have the stage start at 1045ish, so it's after Hobgoblin but before the main to give staggered cross over.

Hobgoblin stage: Mostly keep it the same. However, I'd add an extra round of competition for the judges, whereby the sort through all the M2TM comp winners, plus the Hobgoblin submissions to proclaim an overall tournament winner. That band would get to play a newly created slot, 2015-2100. Gives the last band the feel of a headliner for that stage, and is something cool for the unsigned bands to vie for on top of the spot they have won.

Jagermeister stage: Keep it. Return it to an acoustic stage. Increase the number of slots to 9 (there are two gaps between main stage bands that aren't currently used, plus I'd have someone play 1030-1050 too). I'd also make sure that the times for the stage were exactly to the limits of when there isn't music on the main stage - it's totally daft that they have some of the bands crossover.


I've probably put too much thought into something that will never happen, but here is how my idea for the double sophie stage could look, time wise:

Key:
s1 = 1st sophie stage
s2 = 2ns sophie stage
ie s1.1 = first band on 1st sophie stage, 2.3 = 3rd band on 2nd sophie stage etc.

The below works with Sophie stage starting at 1030...

1030-1110: s1.1
1120-1200: s2.1
1210-1250: s1.2
1300-1340: s2.2
1350-1430: s1.3
1440-1520: s2.3
1530-1610: s1.4
1620-1700: s2.4
1710-1750: s1.5
1800-1840: s2.5
1850-1930: s1.6
1940-2020: s2.6
---
2030-2130: s1.7 ("sub-headliner")
---
gap for main stage headliner (tends to be either 2115 or 2130 start time)
---
2230-2345: s2.7 ("headliner")

So, basically, you'd have a few of the earlier slots going to HG/JM bands that stood out from the previous year. This helps provide a path up the bill for unsigned/up-and-coming acts. It also keeps costs down. Total number of bands would increase to 14, with each guaranteed a minimum of 40 minutes. The 'sub-headliner' would get an hour and the 'headliner' 75 mins. The gap between them gives the headliner the majority of their set unopposed (something the festival can sell to those headliners that are arsier about these kind of things).
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Re: How many more bands?

Postby cheesemason » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:41 am

If the festival wants to grow and improve, it really is the Sophie Stage where they need to look. More often that not there are only about two bands a day I've actually heard of, which usually leaves a pretty poor alternative to the main stage.

There's really been no progression in the profile of the bands on that stage in the last few years, and feels like a bit of a regression if anything.

If they really want to get to being a 20,000 capacity festival, then they need to start booking bigger and better bands on this stage. The first half of each day is little more than a glorified New Blood stage. Drop a couple of bands a day and pump a bit of money into the bands here.

A revolving two stage set up as mentioned above would be nice, but they just aren't ready for it yet. If you increase the numbers of bands, you'll just get more mediocre pub bands.

And yeah, the Jager should definitely go back to acoustic. Just 4-5 bands a day would be fine, as any more than they currently have and you'd probably struggle to find that many suitable bands

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Re: How many more bands?

Postby houston4044 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:42 am

Haldamir319 wrote:
As for whether to decrease, stick with, or increase the number of bands playing... I'm undecided. Gandalf has a point, but if by reducing the number of bands playing we get less of the 'good' ones and more of the 'bad' ones it seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot a bit.


Sums up my argument better than I did in 3 paragraphs :lol: :oops:

Haldamir319 wrote:Jagermeister stage: I'd also make sure that the times for the stage were exactly to the limits of when there isn't music on the main stage - it's totally daft that they have some of the bands crossover.


Completely agree with you, for anyone near the Jager stage wanting to hear main it becomes a distorted mess, for those wanting to listen to the Jager stage you have to pretty much be on the Jager barrier; no one wins

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Re: How many more bands?

Postby Gandalf the Red » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:17 am

cheesemason wrote:If the festival wants to grow and improve, it really is the Sophie Stage where they need to look. More often that not there are only about two bands a day I've actually heard of, which usually leaves a pretty poor alternative to the main stage.

There's really been no progression in the profile of the bands on that stage in the last few years, and feels like a bit of a regression if anything.

If they really want to get to being a 20,000 capacity festival, then they need to start booking bigger and better bands on this stage. The first half of each day is little more than a glorified New Blood stage. Drop a couple of bands a day and pump a bit of money into the bands here.

A revolving two stage set up as mentioned above would be nice, but they just aren't ready for it yet. If you increase the numbers of bands, you'll just get more mediocre pub bands.

And yeah, the Jager should definitely go back to acoustic. Just 4-5 bands a day would be fine, as any more than they currently have and you'd probably struggle to find that many suitable bands


That's really the gist of what I was going on about. Mainly the bit about the Sophie stage consisting of New Blood bands. It seems to me that we are now getting two and a half stages full of unsigned bands whilst the lower reaches of the mainstage is getting bands that should be playing the Sophie stage.


A few of you have mentioned the Jägermeister stage and overlaps. Hanowar had it particularly bad a couple of years ago when you could hear Opeth playing when they were. Funnily enough they posted on the Forum this morning. :lol:
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