Vicky's Gone Then

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Noodle
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:53 am

For what it's worth, the whole situation is relevant to me, so I braved the video. The apology is at the beginning. My take on it is that the apology appeared genuine. She'd probably accept who I am, but I doubt very much that we'd suddenly become friends based purely on personality.
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby north sea storm » Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:15 pm

After all this nonsense recently with Sam Smith vicky was right in the first place and should never have been made to apologise for refusing to address a person as they or them instead of he or she . What an obsurd time we live in . As for those who are unsure of their gender a quick examination of ones privates should do the trick . Remember denial is not a place in Egypt.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:03 pm

After a quick google to find out what you're referring to, I think you need to construct an argument to back up your first statement. The latest results suggest Sam Smith doing gigs as a racey non-binary with some feminine clothing. How would this support your assertion that Vicky should not have apologised?

As to your second point? You have someone here, right now, identifying as a transgender woman, who's on the multiple year waiting list to be seen on the NHS. Will there ever be a point where you would take me seriously? There is a scantly documented history going beyond Victorian times of LGBTQ+ people having to find creative ways to be themselves. The difference between them and people now is that more people in society are comfortable with it. On this basis I couldn't agree that these are absurd times within this context.

From a personal perspective, I've never felt more content with my identity. Being referred to as a man makes me feel monumentally shit, having no access to the technology that would allow me to feel comfortable with my body's outward appearance, but it's not going to make me chuck away my bra, use the gents toilets, demand the laughably few transgender clinics in the UK shut down and go back to being Will simply because there are some who are less comfortable with the idea that I can be a woman, under a new name and have lived as one every day since becoming brave enough to accept it.
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MetalBeast wrote: I got told off by the landlady for banging mine on the ceiling.
tranmerefan wrote:If there's one thing you can be guaranteed of, is that this forum complained about it. And we did.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Ghost » Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:48 pm

At least he's posting something on the board Noodle :lol: :lol:
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby north sea storm » Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:11 pm

The sam smith comment was an example of people referring to themselves as non binary . Which I find ridiculous , the fact that I find him repulsive and repugnant is irrelevant. As for noodle I'm glad you're happy as you are . As you've gathered I'm a bit of a black and white guy so while you identify as female , you aren't it's just a pretence nothing else .

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:32 pm

I'm on the austism spectrum. Nuance is a learned thing, and I understand how hard it can be to navigate the mushed up grey areas.

Thankfully it's not difficult to do some research in order to try and understand the argument against your own view; indeed I've made it even easier for you by actually being here, just as much as this being an opportunity to try to understand why you think the way you do.

It's very easy to form a view based on physical attributes. So, since you're passionate enough to rekindle this debate, it seems plausible that you also have a view on, and have some suggestions as to why someone like me or Sam Smith (whose music I actively dislike) struggle to conform to the reproductive organs we were born with. I'm interested because not everyone with your opinion has considered the psychological aspect or have even dismissed it completely. Hypothetically, if you were to accept us as the genders we identify as, how would it materially affect you?
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MetalBeast wrote: I got told off by the landlady for banging mine on the ceiling.
tranmerefan wrote:If there's one thing you can be guaranteed of, is that this forum complained about it. And we did.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:36 pm

Ghost wrote:At least he's posting something on the board Noodle :lol: :lol:

You have a point. I hope this is proof that I also still check this place every day too :lol:
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MetalBeast wrote: I got told off by the landlady for banging mine on the ceiling.
tranmerefan wrote:If there's one thing you can be guaranteed of, is that this forum complained about it. And we did.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby north sea storm » Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:52 pm

Just answering noodles last point , how would it effect me ? easy , it would mean I was succumbing to stupidity . I must be old fashioned dinosaur probably institutionally homophobic although I love Rob Halford musically his book all about buggery was a tough read . But thats my opinion shared by more than anyone thinks .

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:11 pm

With respect, that's not a material change. It's a different way of thinking about others, but would it force you to change anything you do physically? Would it exclude you? Would it affect any of your rights?

I'm not disputing the popularity of your particular philosophy, nor do I want to demonise it - your honesty's actually really helpful. I want to encourage you to consider it and think about the merits and consequences. Even if I can't change you anyone else into a raving ally (actually not my intention), removing offence on either side doesn't sound like a terrible thing, right?
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MetalBeast wrote: I got told off by the landlady for banging mine on the ceiling.
tranmerefan wrote:If there's one thing you can be guaranteed of, is that this forum complained about it. And we did.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby north sea storm » Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:15 pm

I actually think if we sat down face to face it would be a very interesting conversation and undoubtedly something I could learn from . The thing that gets me going most is the pronoun thing , people usually homosexual transgender etc referring to themselves as they or them . I think it is fairly obvious some people are the wrong gender . Castor semmenya looks more man than woman for example and she does indeed posess testicles . I still think vicky was unfairly harangued for her personal opinion.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:49 pm

The reaction to Vicky came from a place of a history of negative discrimination first and foremost towards LGBTQ+. For that, however light hearted the remark may have been, it was justified to question it. With such a huge audience, there will always be an amount of noise from a percentage. It's not my style to retaliate in that way and there are always a few who take it too far. However, such a backlash gave the entire Bloodstock team, not just her, a "guided opportunity" to reflect and reach out to others to educate themselves about the LGBTQ+ community and the reasons why there was such a strong feeling against her.

When it comes to They/Them or pronouns in general, there's a great number of reasons why can be simpler, whether a person is male, female or anything on the spectrum. Take, for example, you get a letter from a Chris or a Sam. Do you take a stab in the dark as to their gender or refer to them as Them, a person, an individual? The latter two are very well established gender neutral terms.

At the very least, using gender neutral terms makes life a little simpler. If it means you accidentally use them towards say, a non-binary, it even helps social cohesion.
If it sounds good, listen to it
MetalBeast wrote: I got told off by the landlady for banging mine on the ceiling.
tranmerefan wrote:If there's one thing you can be guaranteed of, is that this forum complained about it. And we did.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby north sea storm » Tue May 02, 2023 11:32 am

Recently something has got my back up and really irked is the referral as yasmine Finney as she , who is rather blatantly a he , I think the correct terminology as is used in Thailand is Ladyboy , factually correct and fitting .

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Noodle
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Tue May 02, 2023 2:15 pm

It's as if the above debate never happened.
If it sounds good, listen to it
MetalBeast wrote: I got told off by the landlady for banging mine on the ceiling.
tranmerefan wrote:If there's one thing you can be guaranteed of, is that this forum complained about it. And we did.