Vicky's Gone Then

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Noodle
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:22 pm

metaldinosaur wrote:
Noodle wrote:It certainly does no harm whatsoever to respect a human's gender choice. I don't really understand anyone's refusal to do so. "This person identifies as a woman. What do I gain or lose by calling her a man?"


You potentially lose a lot. There are some very good reasons to question this 'respect' imo. (The deconstruction of certainty and its social consequence would be my main approach). But as ever, when the societal perception has shifted so far in the direction of openness/'acceptance', it has to be meticulously unpicking to uncover it. The self evidenced of 'doing the tight thing' is tanted by mass conformity, so scrutiny and rigor must be applied to the opposing view to reveal justification. In short: the (mean average) social power behind trans identity is crazy powerful - too powerful... and that's not good.

It doesn't mean there aren't reasons to be kind to the individual, there are, which is why I do it, but its appears that any other way of thinking is not allowed at the moment. If Vicky had stood her ground, it could well have been the end of bloodstock... that level of power is crazy. And that doesn't feel right to me.

I'll address the latter point first. No explanation was offered as to the reasons behind her outburst, so it's not unreasonable for trans or those who sympathise with them to assume it's simple prejudice and discrimination against them. That's reason enough to put people off attending, it's reason enough to avoid dealing with Vicky on a professional level, it doesn't need any social movement influence for individuals to make that decision.

At any rate, the bands will always be the deciding factor over the success of this festival. There will always be loyalty to the team as a whole and not just a single person. I don't think Vicky's presence or blunder will cause Bloodstock to fail.

With regards to your other point, I'm cynical towards social media in general so it might cloud my own view, but I think you might be giving a bit too much credit to the more vocal, militant (an admittedly broad description given the differing levels) parts of any social movement you'll find on faceblog tweetville who will taint any reasonable debate with insults, big sounding terms and a tendency to exaggerate and sensationalise in the hope of scoring the big points. Unless there's a change to law forcing society to metaphorically lay the red carpet for only trans people (unlikely and of course dangerous in its own right) I don't think there's much danger of your worries coming to fruition.

As for:
north sea storm wrote:
Noodle wrote:It certainly does no harm whatsoever to respect a human's gender choice. I don't really understand anyone's refusal to do so. "This person identifies as a woman. What do I gain or lose by calling her a man?"
gender choice ? This debate is getting dafter .

Alright, disregard the way I worded my initial statement. So what would your answer to my question be?
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby north sea storm » Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:04 pm

After carefully consideration without wishing to flame this discussion further the answer is nothing in reality. I do find it odd though the public toilets scenario . I e a bloke can put a dress on then use the ladies .

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby metaldinosaur » Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:48 pm

Tbh you seem to be tickling the edges of my argument really, but in fairness I am being obtuse, so maybe that's all it deserves.

I can feel myself sliding towards talking about things like the 'construct' Vs the human condition... Therefore, I'm going to stop. And prevent myself from being too much of a nob.
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Green Man III » Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:53 am

north sea storm wrote:After carefully consideration without wishing to flame this discussion further the answer is nothing in reality. I do find it odd though the public toilets scenario . I e a bloke can put a dress on then use the ladies .


If only it was that easy. :lol:

This isn't the 80s film Private School.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Aaaarrrrgggghhhh » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:26 pm

Statement from Sylvia Lancaster.

I promised I would put out an update following our discussions with Bloodstock.

We have met with Bloodstock Directors to discuss their corporate response to inclusivity and diversity and to better understand their commitment to these issues going forward.

They have absolutely asserted their intention that Bloodstock, historically built on inclusivity and acceptance, will strive to ensure that those values are enshrined for all people.

We have made the decision that we will be attending Bloodstock 2022 and playing our part to make the Festival the most inclusive and welcoming it has ever been.

Leaving feels at odds with our
mission of educating about difference and hoping to help people who don't fit in, or feel accepted, find their place.

As well as having a stall at the Festival and talking about our work to our friends and
supporters, we will provide training activities at the event.

Bloodstock will be sharing details of the training and development they are undertaking and the new
protocols they are implementing.

We know for many people, ourselves included, Bloodstock has always been their happy place and we need to work together to ensure that this is true for all.

Understanding and accepting difference is where this Foundation sprung from. When Sophie was still in hospital following the brutal attack that took her life, I struggled to understand how people
respond to difference with disdain, anger or violence. In this divided world, we need to work together to understand each other better.

We don’t always have to agree, but we should treat each
other with respect.

We need to keep talking. We need to keep listening.

We hope with all our hearts that Bloodstock 2022 will be the most diverse, the most accepting and the most incredible Bloodstock ever.

Let us work together to make it so.

See you at the Sophie Stage.

Love and Light,
Sylvia
Dr Sylvia Lancaster OBE
Chief Executive
The Sophie Lancaster Foundation

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby north sea storm » Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:53 pm

I see there has been a bit of common sense from the passport office . Your either male or female , this non binary nonsense , other , is not an option .

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Ghost » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:59 pm

She's back on twitter :eyes:
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Skippy » Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:57 pm

Ghost wrote:She's back on twitter :eyes:

As if she ever really left. She was clearly still running all the Bloodstock social media.
BANDS I LIKE FOR BLOODSTOCK!!!

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Noodle » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:32 pm

Avoid social media, you avoid Vicky. Actually, you avoid a lot of people. It's quite nice. I recommend it.
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby cheesemason » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:03 pm

She’s doing the Facebook Live next week supposedly

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby i0th2 » Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:58 am

cheesemason wrote:She’s doing the Facebook Live next week supposedly


Yeah saw that, wonder if they'll address it or just pretend like nothing happened. Not that I'll be watching because fuck facebook.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby Green Man III » Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:23 am

Noodle wrote:Avoid social media, you avoid Vicky. Actually, you avoid a lot of people. It's quite nice. I recommend it.


I left social media years ago. I just come to this forum hoping to see people post more.

That and emails, that's my online social life.

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby metaldinosaur » Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:50 pm

She was back. And it went well. I'm glad, but the contrition was just a bit Orwelltastic.

"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."
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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby cheesemason » Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:29 pm

What was actually said?

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Re: Vicky's Gone Then

Postby metaldinosaur » Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:20 pm

cheesemason wrote:What was actually said?


Not that much really, just business (I hope). It was contrition central though, replete with woke buzz words aplenty. There up in the grill of safe spaces now, apparently. Servile enough for the mob it seems. And, yes, forgiveness is given to the prostrate and repenting.

I really hope its just business. If not, she really is Winston Smith now.
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