The UK political thread (formerly independence thread)

Put the world to rights here (off-topic discussion)

How will you vote in the 2019 UK General Election?

Conservative
1
6%
Labour
7
41%
Liberal Democrat
4
24%
SNP
0
No votes
Brexit
1
6%
Green
2
12%
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Other
0
No votes
Won't Vote
2
12%
 
Total votes: 17

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Womble
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Womble » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:11 am

Not to mention that the West Coast of Scotland has oil reserves that are still untapped because the MoD have block exploration because of Trident being housed there.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Deli Kate » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:39 am

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jim » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:00 am

Deli Kate wrote:https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=798709416847541

:?


Summarise it? Not going to watch someone's 6 minute soapbox.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby MetalBeast » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:14 am

Womble wrote:Not to mention that the West Coast of Scotland has oil reserves that are still untapped because the MoD have block exploration because of Trident being housed there.


Indeed, and it will be very interesting to see what they do with Trident if they can't use the Scottish waters.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Gandalf the Red » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:20 am

MetalBeast wrote:
Womble wrote:Not to mention that the West Coast of Scotland has oil reserves that are still untapped because the MoD have block exploration because of Trident being housed there.


Indeed, and it will be very interesting to see what they do with Trident if they can't use the Scottish waters.


Move it to Barrow. That's where they get built and it also has nuclear facilities.

Won't happen anyway.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Smerphy » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:28 am

siliconfury wrote:
Deli Kate wrote:https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=798709416847541

:?


Summarise it? Not going to watch someone's 6 minute soapbox.


Blah blah blah 'Why should England have to work with Scottish banks' (which is a dumb point because pretty much every Scottish bank is operated in London) Blah Blah 'There's no way you're getting a currency union' (Another stupid point, because us using the pound is a short term goal anyway, the main goal we're striving for is our own currency eventually)
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Fjar wrote:Guy on the far-right has just remembered he left the oven on.



That comment can be read very diffferently than what was meant. :lol:

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Jim » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:32 am

Reciting the press, gottit.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Deli Kate » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:17 pm

Not exactly...
He's a Scottish economist. Discussing the realities of using sterling with or without the backing of the bank of England. Quite interesting and not a soap box warrior.
I wondered what the practicalities were and he summed it up quite well I thought.

Using Sterling without the support of the Bank of England- basically running with an unsecured loan, higher interest rates on borrowing (Government) reluctance to lend by international banks etc. and all that entails

Using Sterling with The Bank of England- no control over interest rates or taxation which is why I thought you wanted independence in the first place. English tax payer picks up the bill if the banks go belly up again, which is why the English don't want to underwrite you.

As far as I can see it's a no win situation for both.

In the event of a No vote, the remaining three will not be happy with further powers being granted to Scotland, particularly when it's resulted in policies like:

The tuition fees- where anybody in the EU gets free higher education except the English- don't know how they get away with that one as it's clearly racist;

Per capita spend is much higher in Scotland- you get a lot more for your taxes than the others which the rest of the tax payers feel aggrieved about. Free prescriptions, free care for the elderly etc- the money for this has to come from somewhere. I understand from 'experts' in the field that the oil revenue has been grossly over estimated for the next twenty years so it won't pay for everything.

Scottish parliamentarians voting in Westminster on policies which have no impact on Scotland- we don't have a say in your parliament, why should you influence ours?

I won't go into the slant the predominantly Labour Scotland has had on election results, some say there's no discernible influence on the outcome, however I would say it's responsible for our hung parliament and the total abortion of the coalition government. I have no faith in any of the politicians of any persuasion. they're all a bunch of 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrites. How can you be a millionaire socialist and send your kids to Public School?

I don't often comment on politics because I know it doesn't matter what the argument is 99% of people vote/support the party their parents do-

Be Independent if that's what you want. We'll all be poorer for it. At least look at the realities without the hype of anti British/get rid of the Tories feel good factor.

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Gandalf the Red » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:45 pm

Incredible to think isn’t it, that every single Scotsman, started off as a scotch egg. Old and gingery.



Not mine. Milton Jones's.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Tet » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:26 pm

Deli Kate wrote:I understand from 'experts' in the field that the oil revenue has been grossly over estimated for the next twenty years so it won't pay for everything.

FWIW, my experts have told me precisely the opposite and that the published oil revenue estimates are understating the true figures. But even without oil money, the Scottish economy is likely to be able to stand on its own anyway. It's not as if they're wholly dependent on oil.

Currency union can't work in the long term, but it seems a reasonable short to medium term approach.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Smerphy » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:45 pm

Oil is the cherry on top when it comes to our Economy.

Tbh I think Independence is inevitable, so we might as well vote for it now while we still have a good relationship with the UK and have the economy to back it up.
Gandalf the Red wrote:
Fjar wrote:Guy on the far-right has just remembered he left the oven on.



That comment can be read very diffferently than what was meant. :lol:

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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:52 pm

Deli Kate wrote:Scottish parliamentarians voting in Westminster on policies which have no impact on Scotland- we don't have a say in your parliament, why should you influence ours?


This is hardly the fault of devolved institutions. If you want an elected body that only deals with English matters then bloody well demand one. The same goes for moaning about hung parliaments, ineffective coalitions and wanker politicians. 84% of the population in the UK reside in England so the onus is on you lot to reform the terrible medieval quasi-democracy that we're all lumbered with instead of blaming the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish for trying to get a better deal for themselves.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Deli Kate » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:33 pm

Don't think I was actually blaming the other partners for the shite politicians, just trying to understand the argument.

I don't think that one area of our country should have a better deal than any of the others.

If Scotland vote for independence good for them. I don't wish to underwrite their debts with no control over their spending and therefore do not wish them to be in monetary union with our economy.

I hope they do have a strong economy independently- I haven't seen any facts and figures on the costings of going it alone, other than the banded figure of 1 billion a month in borrowing. No one seems to actually know how much it will cost Scotland to establish their own footing, even on the debate on radio 4 this morning no figures were forthcoming from the 'yes' spokesman.

I understand there's been a lot of debate in Scotland at the grass roots which is how it should be, but nothing other than rhetoric and postulation has been reported here and the two camps haven't actually appeared to have made any logical argument. It's been a typical political point scoring exercise, all style over substance. I would like to know the facts.

It worries me that this will be the fine wedge which breaks Ireland completely. It wouldn't take much to tip it back to the bad times- I'm sure some mourn it's passing.

The Independence thread on the Damnation forum makes for interesting reading.
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Gandalf the Red » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:34 pm

If they get independence then can we deport all the Scots or are they still going to be spending all their time in England like the Irish do? :P
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Re: Scottish Independence thread

Postby Matty_the_Emo_Slayer » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:22 pm

Deli Kate wrote:I don't think that one area of our country should have a better deal than any of the others.


As long as the current London/Sunbelt-centric system is in place though that is exactly what is occurring.

It worries me that this will be the fine wedge which breaks Ireland completely. It wouldn't take much to tip it back to the bad times- I'm sure some mourn it's passing.


Not sure what you're getting at here at all. The effect a Yes outcome will have on Northern Ireland is very minimal. Unionists will throw the toys out of the pram as is their favourite hobby but that will be it. And if this leads to further devolution for Stormont then good, we need it if we're going to move forward. Specifically we need Westminster to stop trying to decimate our public sector and to give us the power to set our own corporation tax so we can actually compete with the south for investment. The longer we go without that the longer we continue to be a drain on your resources and the higher a chance of a return to the troubles actually are.

Gandalf the Red wrote:If they get independence then can we deport all the Scots or are they still going to be spending all their time in England like the Irish do? :P


Tell you what, we'll do a trade and you can take back all these fucking retirees in my town from Nunumbleton-On-Seacliffcombesby or wherever they're from. I'm sick of the queues in the post office :P
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